I love my wife and we have a great life together, but I resent the hell out of her not being more adventurous in bed. I have a cuckold fantasy that I would never follow through on because fantasy is often more fun than reality, but I want some occasional dirty talk in bed about other men she was with before we were married or would like to be with now. She’s too uptight to actually try anything kinky, but I don’t see how talking and fantasizing is an unreasonable expectation. I would do anything for her; I’ve begged her to tell me her fantasy and I will make it happen. But her response is, “I don’t really have any”. Who doesn’t have sexual fantasies? I’ve bitched about it plenty of times to no avail, and I think she would do it if I demanded it, but that would be a hollow victory; that she won’t do this willingly makes me feel unappreciated. I also don’t want to cheat, so how do I get her to come around? Or can I?
Despite what the anti-sex crowd likes to pretend, sexuality is not a mere “choice”, something dropped on top of a person’s personality at the last minute like pickles on a cheeseburger; it is a deep and intrinsic part of the human psyche, rooted in the hindbrain and woven throughout the psychic fabric. Though we use the word “libido” colloquially as a synonym for “horniness”, it’s a lot more than that; Freud defined it as “the energy, regarded as a quantitative magnitude…of those instincts which have to do with all that may be comprised under the word ‘love’.” He considered it part of the id, the unconscious structure of personality, and therefore no more a matter of choice than anything else springing from that tenebrous region of consciousness. Now, we’ve learned a great deal since Freud’s day, and most psychologists feel he was wrong about a lot of things. But this isn’t one of them; if anything, we have reached the collective conclusion that some aspects of a person’s sexuality are so deeply embedded as to constitute major structural elements of that person’s character, because such elements derive from idiosyncrasies of the brain architecture itself. Homosexuals and bisexuals usually report feeling same-sex attraction from an extremely early age (mine goes back at least to my earliest distinct memories, about the age of four), and other sexual traits (such as my fascination with bondage) can start just as early. Other aspects are not quite so deep-rooted, but still develop as interwoven components of personality development. Sexual repression is in this zone; though people are not “born uptight”, the repression develops concurrently with sexual maturation. The adage tells us, “as the twig is bent, so grows the tree”; though it isn’t possible to stop the tree of sexuality from growing, it certainly is possible to bend, warp and stunt its growth. For example, though it isn’t possible to teach a child not to be gay, it is certainly possible to fill his brain with such fear, shame and self-loathing that he can never have a healthy sexual relationship with anyone, male or female. Buried sexual feelings don’t die; they just rot in the dark, decaying into something unwholesome or even noxious.
What this all boils down to is that it’s very, very unlikely you will be able to get her to change. Oh, you might be able to get her to do what you ask, but she won’t like it, and will probably resent it. Women who can be coaxed into stepping outside of their sexual comfort zones are generally those who were inclined to do so anyway, and merely need help to overcome their reservations or get “permission” to be “bad”. The latter is one reason so many women enjoy submission or rape fantasies; they allow displacement of responsibility for being sexual. And though it’s true that some women do indeed become more sexually open-minded and willing to experiment over time even without coaxing, they’re generally ones whose bent is already in that direction; they just need time for growth to catch up with inclination. If you doubt what I’m saying, let’s try a thought experiment: imagine it was your wife who was my reader, and she said described the same situation but ended with, “how can I get him to stop feeling this way?” Just as you can’t help feeling the way you feel, she can’t help the way she feels, and the fact that yours is an urge while hers is an aversion is neither here nor there. And while I am in no position to figure out why you have the kind of fantasies you have, it doesn’t take a latter-day Freud to guess why they make your wife uncomfortable. Furthermore, though you are skeptical that your wife has no sexual fantasies, I can assure you that it is very possible that she has desires which never gel into fully-formed fantasies, or that she actually means A) “I have no fantasies I’m comfortable sharing”; B) “I have no fantasies which you could help me to realize”; or C) “There is no way I would ever want to make my fantasies happen”. You should certainly understand “C” (the “good fantasy, bad reality” principle) because you yourself feel that way about cuckolding; what you may not grok is that for some people even the fantasy may be uncomfortable, however much it may arouse (I have some like that myself, of which the less said, the better).
My advice to you is not dissimilar to that I offered the reader in “Late Bloomer”: while it’s possible therapy might help her to get over her hang-ups, I’m not really sanguine about that because the right therapeutic alchemy is difficult enough to achieve with two people, let alone three. Keep gently trying to get her to open up, but don’t badger her and for Aphrodite’s sake please don’t utter anything that sounds remotely like a threat, because that will only poison the good parts of your relationship. If your need to explore your fantasy is so strong that porn won’t fulfill it, that’s what whores are for; just be sure you pick a good, dependable one, be discreet, and visit her only as often as you need to scratch that special itch.
(Have a question of your own? Please consult this page to see if I’ve answered it in a previous column, and if not just click here to ask me via email.)
I’m not sure about that metaphor Maggie. I mean there’s kinky and then there’s sick. Do you know your posts arrive in eastern Australia at about dinner time?
And that is incredibly problematic.
Us guys are told over and over that “No means no”, yet we learn pretty quickly that for some women “No means ‘I need to be dominated'”. And what does this mean for women for whom No does mean No? Or for us guys who have to try to tell which is which.
I’m aspie so it’s very unsafe for me to assume someone actually means something different to what they say. As a result I respond to “No” with “Alright then, what’s in the fridge?” (Hopefully not pickles and cheeseburgers). I have later learned I have left quite a few exasperated and frustrated women in my wake. Not to mention my own exasperation and frustration.
ALL women want to be dominated, Cabrogal. All of them that are worth having anyway.
No … sometimes means “no”. Sometimes it means “yes”. You have to be able to tell which is which … and fuck … I really don’t think it’s that hard.
She says “no” … when does she say that? When you start to insert? Back off and play some more … then try it again. If it’s a serious “no” she’ll run away from you – so give her the opportunity and see what she does. It takes a little patience.
I had a girl one time … and we did foreplay for two freaking hours and were both hotter than firecrackers. At one point she says … “I want you inside me”. Home plate right? Nope – I went to remove her underwear and I felt her tense up – and knew something was wrong. So I said … “What’s the matter?” and she says … “I’m scared”. Well, there were reasons that both of us shouldn’t have been doing what we were doing and I knew she was really having second thoughts – plus she was a church-going gal so I thought I’d just remove the pressure and say … “It’s totally fine if you don’t want to”. I talked to her some … then got dressed and left. I knew that “no” meant “no” that time.
I was vehemently opposed to “no means no” from the first time I heard it, because it’s bullshit. Sometimes “no” does mean “no”, but sometimes it means “yes”. And sometimes it means “not right now”. And sometimes it means “convince me”. That having been said, there’s a vast difference between “No, tee hee hee” and “GET OFF OF ME, you Son of a Bitch, or I’m going to Scream ‘rape’!”
I realize that’s difficult for men who fall farther to the right on the autism spectrum, but I assure you I had no decision-making authority in the design of the female brain, and as I mention in the post it’s sometimes problematic for me as well. In fact, “Nephil” (the last story in my book) is (in part) about how reproductive biology wasn’t designed with human happiness in mind.
And yes, I did know my posts hit Eastern Australia about dinnertime, but I didn’t know you had an aversion to pickles. Sorry ’bout that, Chief.
Good answer. With respect to rape fantasies, I’ve never had one.
I’ve dated a few women who had them – and I’m unable to fulfill them – and they were disappointed. I came close one time – though in my mind – it wasn’t a rape scenario but a BDSM thing. It got extremely rough – I got worried after – but the girl assured me I did the right thing and asked if I could ever do it again to her. She got into it.
I’ve been lucky enough to live most of my sexual fantasies- even the ones I didn’t know I had until I did them. I’ve done most all the things I am willing to do. I’d do some of them over again, bigger and better.
I’d recommend a cooperative provider for your writer.
Well, what I have found is that there are women who will tell you their fantasies and ask for things … COLD. Meaning, they feel free enough to tell you what they want even before you touch them.
Others – you don’t even dare talk to them about their fantasies until you’ve got them FIRE HOT … panting and sweating. I had a girlfriend who hated swearing … hated the word “pussy” – but that word is a lot more sexy (to me) than “vagina”. “Vagina” is kind of a clinical word to me, like penis is and the two don’t work too good imo when you’re talking dirty and having sex. Anyway – when she got really hot – she would throw the “P” word around and other swear words like a Sailor.
So a lot of girls – once you get them in “the zone” – they’ll cut loose and say things and ask for things they’ve sworn they hate to say and do – when they’re not in “the zone”. This is one more complication of women.
If you “press” a girl like this when she’s not sexually on fire … she’ll feel uncomfortable and it will be even harder to get her excited to the point that she cuts loose.
Fuck … I dated another girl that thought sex was 50-50 … and we practically had to “vote” on which position we got into next. I don’t mind an occasional request – but please let me handle the choreography. One time I got her a little tipsy (just a little to get her to let go of her inhibition) then I worked her up slowly and … POW … I went into “Conan Mode” … I was telling her things like … “See you think this is an equal thing but it’s not – I’m the man – you’re the woman … you follow my lead and WONDER what I’m going to do to you next!”
See that’s the thing I’ve found … the women I’ve been with all liked me to take charge and surprise them. They never know what’s coming next and that makes it exciting for them.
But you can’t sit down over a Starbucks coffee and discuss these things beforehand unfortunately – it’s something you have to do after you get her in the place where she releases control.
And it becomes easier to do every time after that – once you’ve accomplished it once. My 50-50 girlfriend completely stopped giving me suggestions on positions – she let me flip her station to station and would giggle or scream every time I did it. Pretty awesome. 😀
I hope that I don’t seem uncaring, that while I sympathize with the letter writer whose wife will not accomodate his sexual fantasies, at least she is still willing to have sex with him, albeit boring and vanilla sex. There are a lot of husbands and even non-husbands who would be willing to settle for that if they could get it.
I have some very specific “kinks” and I have never “settled” for anything. Once I saw the possibility of being in a situation like those you describe, I decided to go only with professionals. My first was a sex worker, and all of the subsequent ones too. I’m not young, so no, I won’t regret it when I grow older 🙂
Mr. Singer, if you are the letter writer (and even if you aren’t), please accept my apologies. One of the great evils that Maggie never gets tired of preaching against is the fallacy that “if something works for me, it should work for everybody” and the equally bad “if I don’t like this, nobody else should be allowed to do it.” I’m not in your shoes, and if this works for you, then God bless you. Just be careful.
I strongly agree with your commentary on sexuality and it’s related quirks being a deeply rooted aspect of a person, similar to personality traits. You can nurture them, control them, or torment yourself with repression (among other mechanisms). I feel strongly about this because I have always had an attraction to extreme sexual sadism, despite my aversion to it.
I’m not at all sexually repressed; I’m something of a nymphomaniac and the time I work as a legal brothel-whore is basically a recreational sex-vacation to me. Neither am I mentally ill, as is certified by various psychiatrists. Nonetheless, there is a part of me (thoroughly dissociated and never humored) that is the type of sadistic that is just sick; believe me, coping with the self-disgust of unwilling arousal while every other part of me is repulsed by something is an ongoing process. I’m lucky that I also came programmed with a nonconventional but very strict personal moral code. Of course I never tell anyone (psychiatrist or not) about this who can identify me, as it’s an attraction (however unwanted) to criminally insane things and frankly nobody needs to know the inconsequential rusty gears of my otherwise high-performing mechanics.
I dabbled with S&M in the past, but learned to avoid it because, although I never overstepped my companion’s boundaries, it felt far too intoxicating. Potentially slippery slope with bad stuff at the bottom, like how some drug addicts need more and more intense highs. It’s unpleasant enough having a part of me relate to the evil people in crime-documentaries.
I digress, but my point being that, for all of my life’s worth of intense repulsion and unwavering denial of an intrinsic sexual thing in my brain (and I have much more reason to erase it than most fetishes) there’s nothing I can do to remove it.
It feels good to hear somebody say that such things are immovable fixtures, in the sense that it’s not my fault or personal failing that I’m not able to utterly evict it.
I know exactly what you mean; I have similar attraction-repulsion issues, though not to the exact same thing. And people without such problems just can’t get how unpleasant they can be, or why persistent “tell me your fantasy” demands can be so uncomfortable or even offensive.
Yeah. I think it’s never appropriate to pressure anybody for private/vulnerable information. I witness that some of the people who do it see their persistence as a positive thing that should be appreciated like a compliment because they wouldn’t ask if they didn’t care. Some even see it as a romantic loving thing to badger their partner, because it shows just how far they’re willing to go to please them(selves).
And “tell me about your fantasies” is an especially absurd one to to me, partially because of the number of guys who’ve tried to use it as a sexual ice-breaker. Who thought that the best way to move in sexually on a woman is to demand that she compose an erotic novel on the spot about her private sexual thoughts?
The other reason I think it’s absurd is this time I was working at brothel and the most ridiculous guy came in with a fetish for just hearing women talk about their “sexual fantasies”. He showed up in the morning and “negotiated” extensively with pretty much every girl working the floor about a party in which he wanted it to be “All about you and fulfilling your fantasies, I love pleasing a woman’s every desire” (oh please, if truly wanted that, you’d have brought more than $200) and asking what sorts of things we fantasize about that we would want to do. You know, to “get a better idea of what we would do”. He said that he had to go get more money from his car and to consider which if us to pick. We figured that he was one of those stingy fools who would try to try to get the “best deal” by comparing rates, but wasn’t actually willing to pay a reasonable amount for what they want. A few hours later, circa midday, he came back with more money, BUT he wanted to “hear more about your fantasies” before he decided. Only the newer girls would talk to him, as the veteran whores knew his deal by then, and refused to tell him anymore unless he paid for it; my friend laughed when he came up to her in the parlor and she said “Bronchitis. I am totally wet for bronchitis and leprosy”. He left in a huff. Then ten minutes later came back in, all sweaty and worked up. I tried not to laugh at the absurdity of it as he rushed up to me (closest to the door) and said “Please tell me more about your fantasies, different ones and I will come back later with enough money to book a whole night if I choose you.”
“I would, but I just got my period. It’s literally everywhere. Sooo wet. And glistening. Splatters.” I deadpanned, without even looking away from my book, lounging in skimpy silk lingerie on a sofa as my coworkers laughed openly. (If any of you feel like we were being too harsh with this nutcase, consider that he was blatantly trying to steal dirty-talk service from all of us. Didn’t even buy a drink for anyone. If you still think we’re just being derisive whores in a trashy business, try this experiment; walk into a restaurant; scoop up a handful of the after-dinner mints, explaining that you’re just sampling, then walk out. Return to the same place later in the day and wander around saying that you’re just seeing which food you like while stopping by several tables to casually scoop up leftovers and shove them into your pockets before walking out again. This time just sit down outside the restaurant doors and eat the food. Go back in after 10 minutes of that and just start grabbing plates of food right out of waiters hands, as many as you can carry. Feel affronted that the employees are not being polite to you, as you’re just trying to see if you like the place enough to come in for dinner later. Congratulations, you are now the food version of that guy.)
He just stood there in dumbfounded consternation for a few seconds before the madam came over and said with jaded disapproval “You’re going to need to move your car if you want to go keep wanking in there.”
That’s also what I remember every time somebody says “Tell me your fantasy.” Even if I am inclined to answer, it’s hard to give a serious answer any more.
I describe my experiences with similar characters in “Nuisances“. But long before I ever turned pro, I filed “tell me your fantasy” along with male submission and offers to give me back rubs: stuff that’s all about getting them off, (poorly) disguised as a desire to please the woman. Because they never want to hear “my fantasy is that you pay me double my rate, then take me out to a nice restaurant, ask for no sex, and repeat it at the same easily-scheduled time every week”.
I’m having trouble reconciling “have a great life together” and “resent the hell out of her”. Frustration is understandable in a situation like this and has to be managed, but resentment ?
Going in with that attitude doesn’t seem like a good recipe to help move her in your direction. The whole tone of the question seems to be centered around what he wants, not what she wants. If the questioner were to focus on finding out more about what his wife wants – and giving it to her, rather than assuming that what she wants is aligned with what he wants her to want, then maybe she’d start feeling more able to ask for things that she wants, but finds it hard to talk about.
Seems to me that problems of this nature stem from building a relationship backwards. The correct way to do it is explore the areas of concern to you *before* you commit to a relationship. If sex of a particular type and/or range is an issue for you, there is *every* reason to ensure that this is something that the relationship will definitely address.
To say that one is in a relationship that is missing something of great importance to you — and has always been that way — is simply to say that you suck at relationships. Get the lay of the land first; THEN build your house.
To the writer of the letter, I’d say: Don’t use specifics. Simply tell her that you’re unsatisfied with your sex life, that at least at this point you consider that to be a consequence of her approach to the matter, and that you expect remedial action to be taken as a straight-forward obligation of hers in caring for the relationship. Say it nicely; with flowers isn’t going too far by any means. The open questions are “what would you like” and the obligation is “lets do some of that” and of course, that goes both ways.
If you can’t make it work, maybe it isn’t going to work. There are lots of other options. They may feel imposing and even frightening, but people find new partners all the time, that’s the truth.