Women need a reason to have sex. Men just need a place. – Billy Crystal
One of the very first topics I covered in this blog (on July 20th and 21st) was the fact that, for the most part, the female customer of male prostitutes is a myth. Here’s what I said about it in “The Myth of the Wanton”:
But the strangest symptom of the general ignorance about women’s sexuality is the persistent myth of the female customer, the woman who is so desperate for sex that she’s willing to pay a man for it. Hollywood loves to perpetuate this one, and not a month passed that I didn’t get a call from some guy who wanted to work as a male escort catering solely to women. Despite the fact that my ad clearly stated “female escorts,” I always took the time to explain to these fantasy-addled men that the only way for male prostitutes to actually make a living is to see men; I was generally met with incredulity and I’m sure a number of them only called another service after hanging up with me. They just couldn’t get it through their thick skulls that WOMEN DON’T NEED TO PAY FOR IT. This obvious fact even seems occasionally to escape the minds of people who should know better, because every so often somebody announces that she’s going to open a brothel or escort service featuring male prostitutes who cater strictly to women. The service opens to great fanfare, then within a few months either closes or starts accepting male customers.
The perfect illustration of the concluding point of that passage came just one year ago today as “Markus”, America’s first legal male prostitute, quit just two months after his much-ballyhooed arrival. The reason? He had fewer than 10 paying customers in all that time, as described in this excerpt from The Huffington Post of March 29, 2010:
America’s first legal male prostitute has left a rural Nevada brothel after a two-month stint that generated plenty of attention but fewer than 10 paying customers. Brothel owner Jim Davis said Friday (March 26th, 2010) the Shady Lady Ranch had parted ways with the “prostitude” who worked under the name Markus. A replacement has been hired…a Las Vegas man in his mid-30s who works under the name Y. Not and has had about 10 customers. The focus of the business, however, will remain on women prostitutes serving men…Male companions were “never the main course,” [Bobbi Davis] said. “We’re going to try it for a while longer.”
The Shady Lady Ranch created a stir in Nevada’s brothel industry when it successfully won state and county approval to hire a male sex worker. After hiring Markus, the Davises cut him off from speaking with reporters after his first two interviews, in which he compared himself with Rosa Parks and Mahatma Gandhi…
Though I remember the media circus surrounding his hire, I missed the announcement of his resignation last March, probably because there was almost no media attention to it and I wasn’t writing this blog yet (and therefore had no readers to call it to my attention!) If I thought about him at all I assumed he had either quietly quit or just as quietly started taking male customers so he could actually make a living (back when his hiring was first announced my husband said, “He’s going to be the poorest man in Nevada.”) But recently, regular reader Sailor Barsoom mentioned the article after encountering it himself in a link from an article about Harry Reid’s asinine remarks of last month, and I decided the anniversary of his departure from Male Fantasyland on a one-way trip back to reality was worth noting.
Why did the Davises hire him in the first place when they knew full well he wouldn’t get enough business to pay his way? Publicity, of course, of which they got plenty. Much of it was bad, but some people believe there’s no such thing as bad publicity. Perhaps; if things go as they usually do it’ll be about four more years before someone tries this particular publicity stunt again. In any case, the rest of the brothel owners knew better; back when Markus was first hired Dennis Hof, owner of the Moonlite Bunny Ranch, said “What woman with any money is going to go that three or four hours out of their way to do this? Nobody. A year from now, we’re going to have a good laugh about this.” And I’m sure they’re doing exactly that.
“I decided the anniversary of his departure from Male Fantasyland on a one-way trip back to reality was worth noting.”
This had me laughing out loud.
On a recent episode of 30 Rock the Liz Lemon character played by Tina Fey spent the night with a male escort. She didn’t realise it at the time -her friends had set it up when she was moping over a break-up- but she found out the next day and was okay with it. All the more remarkable when you factor in that Fey has a rather puritanical reputation; Amy Poehler called her a Trappist monk. But when she learned that Anders was “a Swiss prostitute recomended by Martha Stewart” (!!!LOL) she replied sincerely that she was lucky to have friends who cared about her happiness that much. There was nothing lurid or leering about the Anders segment and its resolution. Maybe it’s indicative of a shift in attitude?
The full episode is viewable on NBC.com, ‘It’s never too late for now’.
Alas, it’s one of those examples of neofeminist two-facedness, like their cheering a woman who makes a “fuck list” but attacking men who do the same thing. It amazes me that virtually nobody has the guts to call them on their hypocrisy. 🙁
Maggie,
” It amazes me that virtually nobody has the guts to call them on their hypocrisy”
Well I have the guts to do it openly in my own name. I take the position ‘the vast majority of western women are liars and hypocrites’. They hate me but they don’t try to deny it any more.
As an addition to the debate I would like to add a discussion of the phenomenon of hysteria. From ancient times up until the 1920s rich and middle class women would regularly pay for doctors visits to receive a massage designed to temporarily cure them of “hysteria”. What they were really getting was a paid orgasm from their “doctor”. It is an interesting counter example to your claim that women would never pay for sex. This was a socially acceptable outlet if the husband was not competent in the bedroom, and was not considered cheating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_hysteria
The very fact that they didn’t think of it as sex makes all the difference in the world. And let’s not forget that women of high social status risked everything by giving it away in those days, whereas modern women don’t.
Maggie,
I knew two male escorts in my life that saw only women. they did ok, but nothing like the women in the business do.
I remember talking with a client one day that thought we just laid up in nice hotels and kicked down thousands of dollars a day, while loving it. I explained our expense of loging, our web sites, our ads, our cell bills, our problems with the police risk, our hair, nails, tanning etc…. He finally agreed that it was not as easy as the men thought. He then said “I would see women all day for FREE!!!”
I guess they like to dream.
Ah, but you see, most men would see women all day for free. And women know that.
So why the aech ee double-hockey-sticks would she pay a man for what most men are happy to give her for free?
Ah, but now I see that bdevereaux has provided an answer. She wouldn’t pay for sex so much as she would pay for a respite from the dating game. Well, I can understand that.
I’m sure that if she hired me, I’d feel terribly cheap, exploited, and demeaned. But I’d get over it. 😉
In other words, she would “pay you to leave”. 😀
Exactly. I wouldn’t be paid for cumming but for going.
OUCH!!!!!
It’s true. Years ago there was this local bar I would stop in after work on weekends. On a few occasions I would see a hottie, pick him up, and go do the wild thing when we were both willing. We both knew that it wasn’t the beginning of some relationship, we weren’t looking for commitments, neither of us wanted to date. But I would go back to the same bar weeks later and there he would be. “Hey I’ve been looking for you.” Because he wants to date me? No. Because he thinks I would want to give him another freebie. No. Been there, done you.
I still get texts from a guy I saw years ago whom I played around with a little while watching porn. Didn’t even have sex. He thinks we can do it again – for free when I have some spare time.
If you are a promiscuous woman or as Em says – a 15 y/o boy trapped in a woman’s body – the creeps come out of the woodwork if you give it away. Charge for it and the creeps (usually) go away and the men who understand the transaction without any explanation or hassle will start calling. Makes it much easier to get what both of us want.
It goes back to the old thing of “people only really appreciate what they pay for”. Give somebody something for free (or even too cheaply) and 9/10 of the time they don’t view it as a gift but as something owed them, which is one of the main reasons streetwalker are treated much more poorly than escorts are.
Maggie, for some of us, at least, the value goes beyond the price, M’Lady.
Well now hold up. If you do something, and you enjoy it, it hardly makes you a creep that you’d like to do it again. And wanting to enjoy something more than once hardly means you don’t value it.
Why do you think anybody ever masturbates more than once? Or eats chocolate, or any number of other things.
That’s not the point, Sailor. Men who get it for free or cheap almost invariably go beyond merely “wanting it again” to feeling they have the “right” to it again, and that almost instantly. If they have access to one’s number or address they’ll call or knock at weird hours and without warning, demanding sex right then; even escort clients sometimes go that route, but the more one charges the more one’s rules and boundaries are respected.
Depending on my position at the time, I would totally hire a man whore. If I was a woman who worked 60+ hour weeks in some ‘normal’ business type job, did not have a significant other (well even if I did, depending on our relationship and all that) and had no interest in doing the whole flirting game playing thing, I could totally see treating myself to man candy and having it all be about me.
Oh yes I would. I would equate it with buying myself some spa pampering package. Couldn’t I just go out get it for free? Being a (semi) attractive female you would think that I don’t have to pay for it. Of course I don’t. I would WANT to. Because I don’t want some man thinking that just because I picked him up in a bar and let him have his way with me (or let me have my way with him) it means that he can in turn try to get with me for a booty call later. I face the same problems the men do in these situations. I’ve gone out and gotten it fairly easy for free, then I get emails or phone calls or get told that so and so is looking for me. The difference is usually where the guy finds a ‘free’ hook up, the girl calls and want to be his girlfriend. No, I get calls wanting me to be there for when HE is horny, like it’s his turn or something for booty call. No. You weren’t doing me a favor that you expect to be returned to you one day. I would rather pay you, we do it. We are now even. If I liked it, I’ll call you again when I want it. End of story.
So. If I could afford it, I would prefer to hire a male prostitute over not having to pay for it. Sorry guys, does this make you feel cheap and exploited? Do you now feel like you have been raped? Do you feel like less than a person now and are glad that there are not women like me looking for you? Or are you like HELL YEA! Honey you can pay me anytime and I promise I won’t call you out of the blue for booty?
LOL! You, my dear, are one of a kind! 😀
“Semi-attractive”, indeed!
I’m curious what you think of Terri Conley’s recent revisitation of the famous Clark-Hatfield experiment. I can’t find the original article but here is a reasonable summary courtesy of Google (http://tinyurl.com/4vsvyqr).
The lack of success of male prostitutes is a big flaw in Conley’s explanation (modulo societal norms regarding women seeing prostitutes, risk, etc.). A male whore should, at least in theory, be more likely to provide a pleasurable experience than a random stranger. Indeed, the only woman I know who ever paid for a male escort did it for precisely that reason; she had no lack of eager men. But this seems, at best, a very weak inducement.
The biggest flaw in Conley’s theory is that she tries to analyze sexual pleasure as purely physical, which is mostly accurate for men but way off-base for women; even worse, she seems to equate sexual pleasure with ability to achieve orgasm, which for women is little short of absurd considering that most women don’t judge the experience merely by counting climaxes.
I explained my theory about why so few women are interested in paying for sex way back on July 21st: “it should be obvious why it is a rare woman indeed who will pay for sex with a man: It is an undeniable statement that he is not attracted to her, and that invalidates the primary reason for which she might seek unprofitable, non-relationship sex.” Yes, women have sex because it feels good, but a lot of those good feelings, for a woman at least, are in her head rather than between her legs.
http://www.lvrj.com/news/first–prostidude–leaves-shady-lady-ranch-89211477.html
Please note in the above article that “Markus” has been replaced by a new man. This is also on the Wikipedia entry for the brothel.
He, too, will go when he discovers he can’t make a living wage, unless he has really, really low ambitions and can get by on a couple of hundred every couple of weeks.
Do you think it’s possible he’s doing it for NON-money reasons? I think it is. And if he is, I commend him for it.
I think it’s a virtual certainty.
I have to express some puzzlement as to why, exactly, he would take a for-pay job for non-monetary reasons, and exactly why that would be commendable. I’m not saying it can’t be, but help me out here.
Laura will have to tell you why she feels it’s commendable, but as for his reasons, need I say it? “Sex with strange women”.
Ah yes, the Hank Williams, Jr. motivation: “I like to have women I’ve never had.”
I can respect that. I don’t know if it’s “commendable,” but I can understand the motivation.
You aren’t using your imaginations. Or, from a purely hypothetical standpoint, if a man could meet women who had no problem with “comping” his fuel/travel/lodging expenses on the reference of a female… friend who said that the man in question was worth the time, then a much better looking/endowed/etc. man could make a decent enough living. The sole change towards the business model would deal with context, not the actual goal.
As mentioned above, Victorian women had no qualms with being manipulated to orgasm by doctors. In Japan, women in high stress jobs visit “host” clubs and spend hundreds of dollars to be flirted with, cosseted and often bedded by men. “Rent-a-Dreads” (Caribbean-based/born black men) earn thousands of dollars monthly by catering to the conjoined size/island lover stereotypes, to the extent that they can even be found in black hostile to neutral Asia and their own ancestral continent! Any experienced swinger will tell you that the lifestyle is fueled and controlled by women. And any decent looking masseur has been hit on or has seen physical evidence of ( sometimes ) copious feminine arousal. While this evidence can be seen as tangential or fringe, it still stands as quantifiable information.
I will agree that at it’s baseline level, a male prostitute who refuses to take male clients will die homeless, hungry and hard. I can’t say that I’ve ever met a woman who’s walked into a room, seen a stranger with an erection and immediately felt like having sex with the man in question. I know that they exist (in the same way that women who like gangbangs or hardcore BDSM exist) but their numbers are low enough to be negligible (never mind finding women who are willing to part with money for the experience!) But a man who gave a BFE in tandem with certain activities (from a purely hypothetical standpoint, I can postulate that an already aroused woman with an attractive masseur or dance partner wouldn’t feel guilty or out of sorts by paying for “extras”, in the same way that thousands of European women have no qualms at sending care packages and cash to their ” swarthy swains”.)
Bottom line, in our modern world, there are plenty of women who are willing to pay (not handsomely or excessively large amounts of money, but money nonetheless) for a *proven* commodity. Saying that there’s a market for marginal men in the for-profit sex market is farcical (in comparison to the sheer numbers of unattractive women who are picked up in prostitution stings.) But there are plenty of women who would be willing to pay for “sex with benefits” if they honestly thought that they couldn’t net the same results on the open dating market. The profit margins wouldn’t be as high as in female prostitution, but as any masseur who’s watched a woman’s legs splay themselves after a few minutes knows, there’s always a market for a man with a slow hand.
Why do I get the feeling that you’re a “decent looking” male masseur? 🙂
When I was seeing men for sex only friendships, it wasn’t JUST creeps who answered my ads. What do you know? I get sick and tired of that unfair blanket statement. Did I meet some creeps? YES! But, I also met some GOOD men who were wonderful to be with. Did I do a lot of searching? YES. But it was all worth it. Something I’ve heard over and over from women just looking for a RELATIONSHIP and NOT just a sex only friendship is that they run into the same problems I did: men with no manners who also lie. BUT, there’s some out there who AREN’T like this and I say that every chance I get. I’ve got a lot of wonderful memories along with the bad 1’s. I LOVED that I worked to get to where we COULD call each other up when we were in the mood. It was wonderful for a lot of reasons. I also never wanted to be anyone’s girlfriend. What do you know? All the men I met were told the 1st time we met OR when we 1st talked on the phone that I had a fiance and we had an arrangement, etc. There was never any lying on my part. I’m proud of that. I also purposely never charged any of them a cent and am proud of that and always will be. Actually, none of them ever offered me any money which is how I wanted it and I’m very glad the issue never came up. The truth is I personally hate prostitution and want no part of it ever. To be honest, I think people on here might have figured that out already. I am for decriminalization of it, though. I don’t want anyone to think I say that to “look good”, etc. I don’t. I am for it. Just like for drugs. I also hate drugs and want no part of them ever also, but do want decriminalization. The only drug use I think is OK is if you have TRUE health problems and need to get well, etc. Also, 1 of the reasons I started posting here was to speak up for what I call the “wild women”. It was very needed on here as it is in MANY other places in society. There’s a bunch of ###*** lies about us all over and I’m so tired of it. I’m glad I’m to the point in my life that I’m more open about this all because if there was only 1 wild woman in the world her voice still deserves to be heard. Thanks for listening.
Laura, I’d take one women like you who opposes prostitution for herself but supports decriminalization over twenty of the “legalize and regulate the hell out of it” brigade. You recognize that a woman has the right to sex on her own terms whatever those terms may be, but the “legalizers” just want state-sanctioned pimping.
This is a remarkable board, where a woman who can say “I personally hate prostitution and want no part of it ever” and a woman who regards prostitution as a calling can agree. Not on everything, of course (when do any two people agree about everything?), but on the question of “what should society do about prostitution,” which is after all a big deal here.
Thanks, Sailor; think a big part of it is that my moderator’s blade is a scalpel rather than an axe; I read the comments from new posters carefully and then decide whether I should A) approve them unconditionally; B) approve the one comment but alter their email address so future comments still require moderation; or C) ban them outright. Only a very few have been consigned to category “C”, but it only takes one turd to contaminate a whole vat of milk.
Maggie,
“You recognize that a woman has the right to sex on her own terms whatever those terms may be, but the “legalizers” just want state-sanctioned pimping.”
In germany it is all controlled by the guvment. The girls have to pay their taxes like everyone else.
One legend, and I don’t know if its true but it was in the papers. A Christian woman IT worker was trying to get a job through the guvment agency. The agency had positions for prostitutes (yep, they guvment places prostitutes here I am told) but the woman said she did not want to be a prostitute, she was a programmer. The legend is that they threatened to cut her welfare payments if she didn’t take the prostitute job. There was a bit of media about it and it is said the guvment backed off.
The problem is obvious. If you are allowed to decline a good paying job based on your ‘religion’ and then demand the state continue to pay for you where does that end? Does it mean that if she is offered a programming job writing cobol she can turn it down because she prefers C++?
People were talking about that case a bit. It all smelled a bit fishy though. Then again. A nurse in the UK was fired for wearing a crucifix. And I think a BA hostie as well.
ACK! I’m feeling about an inch tall here and I apologize. I in no way meant to indicate a blanket statement about the men I had sex with for free. Just that there were a lot more ‘creeps’ to deal with than now. I still get some creeps who pay for it. And when I say ‘creeps’, I mean the ones who would think that since I had sex with them freely one time that I would be more than willing to do it with them again when they wanted it. I felt harassed and stalked and they became creepy only then and afterwards if they continued.
No no, I also met men who were sweet and understood and left me alone afterwards unless I called upon them again. Some I thought about often afterwards, maybe one or two that had it been another time and place, I could have dated them and built a relationship.
Dam size 7.5 foot doesn’t easily come out of my mouth as it went in.
OK, cool! Yes, there ARE men who harrass women, etc. It’s horrible. I know I’m unusual in that I haven’t had that happen! I’m also thankful. What I did experience was the lying and rudeness from men. Many men MAKE the bad reputation that they have overall. But, there’s also the good 1’s that make all the effort at finding them worth it. I’m sorry you went through what you did. That stuff should have never happened.
I’m in boat with ya sister! Some say I’m unusual in that I’ve (knock on wood) never been raped, beaten, robbed as a prostitute. Glad I’m lucky in that respect and I’m sorry that it does/has happened to others. No. I just make lousy choices in bedfellows, both as mates and one night stands.
Well, I have been raped but I’ve never been beaten or robbed, so I’m quite satisfied with that.
When I saw other men, not once did any of them show up when not expected, etc. I never had any problems like that and am thankful. In fact the 1’s I saw regularly never called me more than I did them. The only “problem” I ever had close to that was 1 man who called to talk on the weekends. It wasn’t constant, but it made me nervous because it was non-sex socializing. He ended up not callling again before I was going to break off that part of our contact (it was too much of a risk for me as the NON-sexual contact is the 1 that you CAN have the most trouble with in regards to your main relationship. Unfortunately, I learned this 1st hand also a while back also.). I don’t know for sure why he didn’t want to see me anymore, but was relieved because the non-sex phone call thing was bothering me. I know that some men CAN and DO bother women (have read about this, heard it from other women, etc.), but also wanted to point out this didn’t happen in my experience.
Even if people only appreciate a gift 1/10 of the time that’s a wonderful thing. 1 of the things I love about Christianity is the emphasis on giving and how the Gospel is ONLY to be preached for free. Of course the preachers get donations (and many preachers don’t even specifically ask for them). This is because people know that in Christianity it’s taught that you don’t be a drain on society and work if you’re able-bodied. It’s part of doing your part in the world and GIVING your labor to make the world better, etc. even when you do get a paycheck. The results of our labor are giving back also. Jesus never charged a cent to heal, preach, etc. That’s the standard I love and always will and it’s changed the world hugely for the better. Imagine how much worse the world would be if there were no charity, no volunteer work done, etc. The thought of that is terrifying and disgusting. 1 of the most beautiful things was how the early Christians (Book of Acts) lived with sharing everything, etc. The 1’s who didn’t share were confronted on it which I love. 1 of the things I got free years ago which changed my life hugely for the better was the help, information, etc. of the group Parents of Murdered Children. All it cost me to go was a few $ for gas in the car. They also had members who would carpool with anyone who needed help with gas costs. They didn’t charge anyone a cent to go to the meetings and what I learned there has been invaluable. They did take donations, but there was never any pressure involved with that. If there had been, I would have quit going. Thanks for listening.
If I upset anyone by going on about the example of Christianity, sorry about that. This is a subject you get me started on you may want to hide for a while! There’s other subjects I get this way on also. Thanks for bearing with me.
Sorry for being a little behind schedule, but I wanted to say in support of Maggie’s post on March 27 9:04 AM.
You are so very right. I used to get clients that would say…”Ya know, I was thinking on you night off you might like to go out”…LOL!
Yeah right I knew he was trying for a feebie. The LAST thing I wanted to do on my night off was look at one more man!!!….And for FREE…….NOT!!!
I told one guy that was in computer repair, “How would you like to work ALL day with Computers and then when you get a day off, your neighbor calls and asked if you could take a look at their computer?” He got the message.
A day off date is DOUBLE TIME!!!
I always got double time in the Hospital if they called me in on my day off.
“…but some people believe there’s no such thing as bad publicity.”
The reason no publicity is bad publicity is because there always have & always will be people like me & your youngest sister (the one who went and bought porn in broad daylight) who just love to piss people off. Not necessarily all people, but definitely some specific ones. 😛
Irrelevant to the post, I admit, but as someone who has always maintained that there is something such as bad publicity, this realization came as a bit of an epiphany today. You always make me think outside my self-imposed box, Ms. Maggie 🙂
And no, I did not make a typo in my name again (I called my skinny af self “Blubber” once by mistake and my comment didn’t show up for a couple hours). I just wanted to make sure you’ll see this little compliment while doing your moderating chore. Because I don’t give them very often & don’t like to wasting them.
I understand why you did the typo thing, but please don’t do that again; this computer is slow first thing in the morning, and it takes much longer to moderate a comment than you think it does. Don’t worry, I see all of them even if I don’t have to hand-approve them.
Sorry! I won’t do it again. I keep forgetting that you’re waking up when I’m going to sleep.