The weeder is supremely needed if the Garden of the Muses is to persist as a garden. – Ezra Pound
Some people seem completely unable to grasp that the public and private spheres are different things, and that what is permissible in one might be wholly inappropriate in the other. As in so many other cases, the Spinach Analogy applies here: though I find spinach revolting and would never cook or eat it, I would oppose any law to ban others from enjoying it. It is wrong for a government or other powerful entity (e.g. a university) to ban free speech, but that doesn’t mean that I or any other individual have to allow books, movies, television shows or even topics of conversation we find offensive in our own homes. It is not censorship to say “I won’t allow such-and-such in a space I control”; it only becomes censorship when some powerful entity tries to prevent anyone from accessing that material in their own spaces. For me to refuse certain comments on this blog isn’t censorship, because I cannot stop (and wouldn’t if I could) the would-be commenter from posting elsewhere, or my readers from reading things that repulse me. In other words, please feel free to insult me or criticize me anywhere on the internet you like, but you’re a moron if you think I’m going to give you the space and audience with which to do it; you can dig holes and strew rubbish in your own yard, but not mine.
That having been said, anyone who’s been reading me for a while knows that I actually don’t refuse very many non-spam comments; on average it rarely rises above one per month. However, as my blog has become more popular the number seems to be increasing, and since April has been closer to one per week. I honestly don’t want to block anyone, but as Pound pointed out weeds must be weeded. So even though I covered this topic already in “House Rules” (conveniently linked in “A Few References” at right) I thought I’d elaborate a bit for the few who still don’t get it. I don’t believe for one moment this will actually have any effect on such people because they tend to blunder obliviously through life with all the civilized concern and preternatural grace of the idiomatic male bovine in a porcelain emporium; however, it may amuse the rest of you.
First, let’s synopsize the house rules:
1) This is my blog and I am the only authority on what goes into it.
2) Anyone who introduces himself for the first time with an insulting, dishonest or trollish post will not ever make it to the board unless I choose to feature and ridicule it.
3) Remember Brandy’s mantra: “I will behave on Maggie’s blog, I will behave on Maggie’s blog, I will behave on Maggie’s blog…”
4) Organic thread-wandering is welcome and enriches the site; repeatedly hijacking threads to promote an agenda which has nothing to do with mine is incredibly rude. The phrase “get your own blog” comes to mind.
5) Everyone’s long-winded sometimes, but if most of your replies are longer than the column to which they’re attached, you might consider the advice in #4.
If your comments always appear soon after you submit them (possibly a bit longer if you include a bunch of links because WordPress automatically shunts those to moderation), you probably have nothing to worry about. If some of your comments appear but others never do, it means I have you on permanent moderation so you might want to contemplate which of these rules you’re breaking. But if you’re a new poster who can’t quite comprehend rule #2 above, here’s a handy-dandy lesson in how to make absolutely sure none of your comments ever see the light of day.
Preach at me.
This is the most certain strategy, hands down. I don’t just mean religious preaching (like the guy who recently tried to attach SEVEN column-length comments about the Whore of Babylon to my “Harlots of the Bible” post); any dogmatic, absolutist screed relying entirely on appeal to authority will do (including excerpts from the “philosophy” of any of the women who are quoted in my column of one year ago today). This technique is especially effective if it incorporates the second method:
Insult me in a trite, tinned and/or completely inapplicable manner.
As regular readers already know, I actually don’t mind insults as long as they’re interesting, fresh and (above all) true. My all-time favorite comment anyone ever made about me was an insult: “She definitely won’t use two words where six will do.” Another favorite: “Sometimes she sounds like a teenage Rand on pot.” But there’s a good chance your comment is headed straight for the bin if you tell me I’m going to Hell, or call me “immature”, “stupid” or (best of all) “pseudo-intellectual”, or state that I “always” commit such-and-such logical fallacy that I actually never commit. Which brings us to…
Demonstrate that you’ve never actually read my blog, and you’re just here to troll.
The most common means of implementing this technique is to state that I don’t allow criticism or that all of my readers are sycophants who never disagree with me; this is particularly egregious because I doubt one could scan three comment threads at random without encountering an example of a reader disagreeing with me, sometimes quite vociferously. Another good one is misstating my positions in a way that indicates total ignorance rather than simple misunderstanding, such as ascribing “-isms” to me that are completely belied by my repeatedly stated beliefs (such as calling me “racist” or “anti-trans”); the best version of this is claiming I’m “homophobic” or “whorephobic” even though I am in fact a bisexual whore. That also borders on the next tactic:
Call me a liar or otherwise impugn my moral character.
You can disagree with me all day, tell me you think I’m wrong, produce facts that prove me wrong, or even say that you don’t think I’ve thought whatever-it-is out. And it’s a given that some people may have personal objections to my stated moral positions (such as the principle that harlotry is a positive social good or the idea that people have the absolute right to own and control their own bodies). But if you’re going to claim that I don’t actually believe what I say I believe, or that I’ve somehow misrepresented the facts to promote a nefarious agenda, I refuse to give you more time than it takes to click “trash” because it’s impossible to prove a negative. Claims that events as I’ve reported them (or my reactions to those events) are deliberately falsified fall into this category, but claims that the falsification is unintentional fall into the next:
Tell me I’m wrong about my own experiences.
Anyone who seriously proposes that a complete stranger is more qualified to interpret my own experiences than I am, or who insists that I’m a victim of “patriarchal brainwashing” or “false consciousness”, or that I just don’t remember things that must have happened to me – and all on the basis of something she read on a website or learned in her “womyn’s studies” class – needs professional help, and soon. But since I’m not qualified to give that (and it’s highly doubtful that such a person would accept it from me anyhow), the kindest thing I can do is to refuse to humor her delusions. Some examples of this are cloaked in the last method:
Pretend to be more knowledgeable in my subject than I am without offering any proof whatsoever.
Really, this brings us around to the first one again, except that the appeal to authority is either personal (“I’ve worked with hundreds of human trafficking victims”) or diffuse (“Everybody knows that…”) and completely unsupported by any kind of evidence, study, professional consensus or even experience of any sex worker I’ve ever talked to. This one is particularly offensive when combined with either of the two previous tactics: “No, you’re wrong/lying: NO woman enters sex work voluntarily, there’s ALWAYS some kind of coercion or emotional/mental issue. I don’t have to prove it because it’s obvious.”
If some of y’all still aren’t convinced that blocking any comments is right, consider what my comment threads would eventually look like if the above tactics became common here.
Exactly.
I’m just wondering … are you getting a lot of emails from readers lately who are trying to “lecture” you or tell you how to run your business here? Just wondering because of this post, and the one the other day you posted on people being so outrageously outraged by your comments, they feel the need to threaten you by saying they’ll never read this blog again. Since you don’t make any money off this blog – I’m sure that breaks your heart!! 😛
For me … everything I see looks very organized and civil. Sometimes there’s a “WTF?” comment but, visible to me – it’s rare. I think all my posts post immediately so now I feel privileged and will try a little harder to make them better – but I do try to include a bit of humor and “salt” in mine.
Well, I think you are doing the right thing because, if left unmoderated – this place would eventually just turn into a garbage pile of uncivil comments. I’ve seen it happen on blogs before – just go check out hotair.com. The mods on that board just “gave up” and now leave all the censorship to word “filters”. You can’t make a post there now that includes any of the banned words or your post goes off into hyperspace – never to be seen. And – the banned words are never listed so you can’t just avoid using them. “Revolution” that word will get your comment canned so if you write … “Well, after the American revolution …” – boom, man – your comment is shit-canned by some two-bit artificially intelligent word filter – that ain’t too intelligent.
Like I said above, you don’t get paid anything for this blog – though some of us will send you a Christmas present via amazon but I’m not sure that makes up for all the headaches. But just a note on me – I take direction and ass-chewing very well – this is something I learned in the Navy and I’m quite proud of my ability to remain calm while a big chunk of my ass is being removed without anesthesia – so if I ever piss you off feel free to email me and call me an idiot. I won’t stop reading you.
I think most of us appreciate what you are doing, Maggie … so don’t let the idiots get to you and …
Always look on the bright side of life!
http://youtu.be/WoaktW-Lu38
No, definitely not a lot; the only reason I repeated that particular rule is because I synopsized “Handy Figures”. Of these categories, the most common one is probably trolling; apparently these doofuses feel so confident that all of their “enemies” are exactly alike that they feel comfortable spouting out garbage like “You always say…” followed by a string of things I’ve never said, thus demonstrating that they’ve never read this blog and only arrived here via a link on Facebook or something.
The direct inspirations for this column were the preacher guy I mentioned in the text, and a woman who in four short (attempted) comments on one column managed to cover all six of these methods!
🙂 Love it!!!
Why am I you???
You were still login on my laptop. 🙂 Fixed. LOL!
It was quite a surprise to see “me” posting comments I didn’t remember while I was asleep! 😀
Shape shifting and body snatching … the “Kung Fu” is strong with this one! 🙂
Maybe maggiesman was trafficking our Maggie! That would explain the body snatching….. It could happen…..
Oh, he trafficks me all over the damned place! Not that I usually mind. 😉
I’m glad Maggie didn’t break any of Maggi’s rules, so Maggie didn’t have to ban herself.
“though I find spinach revolting and would never cook or eat it, I would oppose any law to ban others from enjoying it. ”
Really? I LOVE spinach and used to eat it by the plateful when I was a kid. I used to BEG my mum for more spinach. Might have been the “Popeye” brainwashing, eh?
That said. Of course you have the right to control comments on your blog. You have not published some comments of mine and I am perfectly ok with that. I leave them here and leave them to your judgement as to whether they are of value to you or not. Everything I say is true or clearly marked as an opinion. But that does not mean you have any obligation to post it.
I put links to you blog in LOTS of places and some people who have seen said links have joined in the discussion and contributed. I am very pleased to have done so.
As far as I can tell, since the female misogynist went offline you are the ONLY woman I know talking sense. I tried to talk a bit of sense to Girl Writes What but she is as clueless as the next woman. She is still “surprised” at the lies of feminism! LOL!!
So by all means weed the Garden Maggie.
Your blog is an oasis of intelligence among the intellectual desert known as “the modern woman”.
You are the exception that proves the rule that the vast number of our western sisters have checked their brains at the door and replaced thinking with Oprah, Dr. Phil or Days of our Lives.
Feminisnt
I must beg to disagree in the strongest possible terms (if that’s all right with you). Spinach is delicious when cooked correctly. Clearly your distaste for this heavenly vegetable is the result of Patriachial brain washing and you have never actually tasted spinach in your life. It is also well known that sex-traffickers have a powerful aversion to spinach. I know this for a fact because I read it on the internet. 😉
On a more serious note, it seems to me that the increase in trolling and critical comments is an indication of your success in getting your point of view heard.
V. W. Singer. Hysterical. Thanks for the laugh. It brightened my Sunday.
There’s different kinds of spinach. I hate the traditional kind of spinach Popeye eats, but looove baby spinach.
Mum, may she rest peacefully, had a very tasty recipie for cheesy spinach bake; imagine a cheese and pine nut lasagna where the pasta = spinach. ❤
PS. Maggie,
True story. On the may day weekend I asked my fav#1 to dinner as the anniversary of our “bread roll incident”. This was a comment she made that finally had me snap out of being suicidal. I just wanted to take her to dinner and thank her again and tell her again how much she helped me save my own life.
Anyway. As it happened it was very busy on the train and a young woman, 28, who was also very pretty, happened to sit next to me. She saw I was reading a book in english so she asked me where I was from etc. We got to talking and it turned out we had professional overlap in our businesses so we talked about that.
She asked me what I was doing in Germany. So I explained to her the level of man-hatred in the west. I told her the usual array of stories how women laugh at men who have their penis cut off, laugh at men who are stabbed or set on fire and killed by their wives, laugh at men who have their children kidnapped and houses stolen. I told her about 5 such cases.
She was lucky there are so few flies as her mouth was so agape you could have driven the very train we were in through her gaping mouth. She had never traveled to an english speaking country and had never heard such tales. She challenged me on the truth of them.
As we pulled into the station I had to leave at I noted to her that I was going to meet the most caring and loving woman I had ever met who helped me save my life when my children were kidnapped and abused. I told her the reason that I prefer not living in the west was that women like her, who found these stories, abhorrent were “normal” in Germany. And I very much preferred being around women who cared for me as a human being just because I existed and did not hate on me merely for being male.
Her comment was “it must feel really bad to live in a society where people hate you and celebrate your misfortune just because you are a man”…I smiled and told her “Yes, when even your wife hates you it is not much fun. But today I will have dinner with someone I really do wish would change her mind and maybe marry me one day. I am very happy.” We parted with smiles and it was a very pleasant hour or so.
Such interactions do not happen any more in the west. I have not had a woman who was a stranger in the west speak to me like that in years. Indeed, I would be hard pushed to remember on. In germany it is as common as getting on a train and happening to sit next to a woman. Pretty much every one will react like this one.
In the west there is a distinct lack of caring about each other. Everyone is so self interested that the abuse of any other group is not of concern and nothing is to be done about it.
Until people in the west, both men and women, make the stand that ALL people are entitled to the protection of the law JUST BECAUSE THEY EXIST then the guvment will continue to victimise subgroups for the “protection” of those who will be the next group of victims. Until then? I will live where I can meet lovely young women like that and have a decent human interaction that leaves us both feeling the better for it.
Such is well nigh impossible in the west now.
Peter-Andrew,
I have had similar conversations, usually with women who are angry that their ex refuses to pay child support (or is unable, which is more likely). How DARE they have to jump through hoops for the government to steal his money that is HERS by right?
And then they get mad with another woman says things like, “Honey, that’s due process of law. You don’t get to take his paycheck without due process. You’d want it if it were you.”
There are still American women who can see the light. People are people, and it is WRONG to hate men just because they are men. I’m a little skittish about relationships, and I’m honest about it – but that doesn’t mean all men are bad or that I celebrate their misfortunes.
can we please stop with that? not ALL american women are bad,just like not all men are serial killer rapists. ok?
xthanxbyebye
I agree – I love American women! Then again, I love all women pretty much. 😛
I’ve never been able to resolve Peter’s view of women with my own. His experiences with women and their attitudes are 180 degrees from my own. This doesn’t invalidate his experiences or his opinions – but it does have me scratching my head trying to figure out the “delta” between us.
I’ve seen a few who kind-of approach it. If my sample set were typical – which it certainly isn’t – I could deduce that he lives in blackswanville.
Maggie,
maybe if I do not get my comments posted I should cry like a woman, eh?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2152192/Should-crying-way-career-ladder-Facebook-COO-Sheryl-Sandberg-tears-help-women-succeed-work.html
I thought women said they wanted to be treated like men. Do you know how a man would be treated if he went around saying men should cry in the workplace?
I call bullshit on Sheryl Sandberg. Tears do not help. Unless you’re a complete idiot and can’t get the job done any other way.
LOVE this. Had to do it recently myself on my own blog.
I’m going to tweet some of the things you said, giving you credit of course, if you don’t mind.
I certainly don’t mind. 🙂
I’m a member of an American photography forum (http://forum.getdpi.com/). From the start the owners said that we should think that we were at their (the owners’) dinner table, having a discussion. We could agree or disagree, but always in a civil manner. It works well there; it’s a good model to follow.
BUT: I like spinach, though it needs to be steamed then cooked with bacon. You don’t know what you are missing 😉
Mm, I second that bacon suggestion. Korhomme, if you have a left over ham bone, you can use that in lieu of bacon. You can do the same with green beans, collards, turnip greens, mustard greens, etc. That’s some good eatin’!
All right, guys, you can stop with the suggestions that I “try” spinach; people have been doing this to me for four decades now, and I can assure you it won’t work. It’s simply not possible to “get over” a visceral reaction, except perhaps via the use of drugs, and one can’t “enjoy” any food while one is in the process of vomiting. 🙁
Fuck spinach … I say.
And all those “high fiber” foods …
Flushes hormones in women … does the same in men …
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,571582,00.html
Maggie, I’m with you. Ewwww.
I once had somebody try to pass off “spinach lasagna” on me as if it was regular lasagna. Pissed me the fuck off. And then I had no dinner, I guess the person was so sure I’d fall for it they didn’t even bring me any back-up munchies. Grrr.
I have never understood that mentality of trying to trick adults into eating food they don’t like as if they were finicky children. It’s more often the veggie-eaters trying to trick the greens-haters, but I’ve also encountered meat-eaters trying to trick vegetarians. Either one is appallingly disrespectful in my book.
It IS disrespectful. But too many people think that it’s “no biggie”.
I make awesome bacon maple cupcakes. A bit ago I made some for an event. I also made a special batch for a Muslim friend (and any veggie lovers 😉 that might show up). Other friend kept telling me I was wasting my time and should just serve him the bacon ones “as a lark” and as “punishment.”
It was just so amazingly rude that we got into a serious argument about it. She assumed that because him and I routinely get into heated debates about our beliefs that I would be ok with doing that to him? wtf?
Rudeness and lack of respect. Way too much of that around. This place is your living room, your salon, your solar. You invite us in with an open door policy and if we start propping up our muddy feat on the cushions, pulling the dogs tail, and putting out our smokes on table tops then you get to show us the door.
Side note… bacon maple cupcakes…. mmmm.
Those sound totally awesome! Care to share the recipe? 😉
Definitely share that recipe! OMG, I can already taste them….
Oh come on … some people want to be tricked!
I was in college – for like five days – and one of those days we had a picnic and I volunteered to help cook the food – and serve it.
My Pakistani Biology instructor comes out, his name was “Dr. Mulkana” he was a MUSLIM… and I see Doc sticking his fingers into the pork and beans and tasting them – so I run over to Doc with lightning speed …
Me: “Hey Doc, that shit has bacon in it – you don’t want to eat it.”
Doc: (Still tasting the beans with his finger) “No it doesn’t”
Me: “Yeah Doc, it does – I cooked that myself and I put A LOT of bacon in it – see that big slick of grease on top – that’s bacon fat.”
Doc: (Now scooping a huge helping of beans on to his plate) … “There’s no bacon in this.”
Heh … one of the causes of the “Indian Mutiny” in the 1850’s was a rumor that the British had dipped rifle cartridges into pigs fat – and since the Muslim troops had to bite through it to load their weapons – they refused to use their weapons. These were Doc’s forefathers.
I thought about them as I watched Doc down those pork and beans with a huge smile on his face. 😛
mmk having not seen your blog before and not knowing what it’s about (clicked a link from Twitter) can I just say I loved the way you nonchalantly said ” I am in fact a bisexual whore”. Love it. Interesting reading. Will be reading more at some point.
Thanks, Tom! 🙂
Another good one is misstating my positions in a way that indicates total ignorance rather than simple misunderstanding, such as ascribing “-isms” to me that are completely belied by my repeatedly stated beliefs (such as calling me “racist” or “anti-trans”); the best version of this is claiming I’m “homophobic” or “whorephobic” even though I am in fact a bisexual whore.
From my own experience and observation, here is what I think happens: you don’t use the ever-changing PC terms (that I swear to gods changes every damned week) nor do you don’t claim that a minority experience is the standard when it suits your argument only to claim the reverse when it doesn’t. Especially regarding sex and gender. Pretty much, anyone who doesn’t ascribe to the notion that humanity is not just a featureless, amorphous blob of nothing is not PC and inclusive in the view of the ultrasensitive. Only when it suits them; again, when it’s a group they don’t like they have no problem drawing lines.
Yes, I think you’re dead on the money there. I won’t use PC euphemisms, especially when they’re polysyllabic; though I’ve never cared much for “gay”, it has the advantage of being monosyllabic unlike that currently-popular monstrosity “GLBTQI”, which since it can’t be pronounced (only spelled) is six syllables long, almost as bad as the 7-syllable jawbreaker “African-American”. And it also infuriates the easily-offended that I refuse to pretend that it’s possible to list every single exception to a rule when talking about a generality.
“GLBTQI”= Glib-ticki. Heh.
I know quite a few people who identify as African-American who, getting tired of writing it out, just abbreviate as AA. I said, “Well, no, now you’re identifying as a drunk.” LOL! My father, for reasons I can only guess at, strongly identifies as such (and if you saw how white he is, you’d laugh heartily), but most black Americans I know and are related to don’t feel a particularly strong connection to some generalized “African” identity.
That’s the worst problem with polysyllabic abortions; people get tired of saying them and then they turn into sterile abbreviations. “Black” has a lot more character than “AA”, “queer” a lot more impact than “GLBTQI”, and “truck” a helluva lot more meaning than “SUV”.
Glib tikis for all! … You know, that actually is oddly appropriate.
But when did an “i” get tacked on?
When I was subscribing to Curve it was still GLBTQ? Granted that was a few years ago; before I embraced just being a human and forgot about terms. *sigh* So many terms so little time. Must keep abreast of these things.
Last year, I think; the latest is “LGBTQIH” but that hasn’t become standard yet.
i grew up as “black” & black i will stay(just like the great grandparents who are still “colored”).lol
Well, we still have the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Nobody’s suggested (as far as I know) changing it to the N quadruple-A P. Nor, last I heard, had the United Negro College Fund been changed to the United African-American College Fund.
All that having been said, nobody seems to give a leprechaun’s ass that I identify as Irish, so why all the eye-rolling over “African?”
Terms change over time. In my Anzu story, set in the year 2109, Anzu calls herself an “Afrin,” her best friend Botilda is an “Orin,” and white European types like me are “Kazoids.” This isn’t a prediction I’m making about what people will call themselves and each other; I just thought I needed some future versions of today’s terms.
All that having been said, nobody seems to give a leprechaun’s ass that I identify as Irish, so why all the eye-rolling over “African?”
As I stated in my own response, most blacks I know and am related to don’t feel a strong connection to some generalized “African” identity. Africa is one of the largest continents in the world and home to thousands of ethnicities, tribes and dozens of nations all with their own history. Even though most descendants of slaves originate from West Africa, that still leaves hundreds of groups of people, again, all with their own unique histories and culture. Yeah, if I can find the tribe(s) my black African ancestors came from, great! I’ll add that to the list. The few people I know who have had the money to have rather expensive DNA tests run were able to narrow down their African heritage to a specific grouping of tribes and nations and still they will list said nations, “I have Yoruba and Igbo heritage” where before they simply identified as black.
So you identify as Irish. How recently did said Irish ancestors come here? Do you know which county they came from or no? Do you and your family carry on any Irish traditions that have been in the family for as long as anyone can remember? How far can you trace said heritage? Pre-Cromwell? Niall of the Nine Hostages? To the original Irish Gaelic or Ulster Scots spelling before it was Anglicized? That’s the difference. There are several generations between modern-day blacks and their most recent ancestor from Africa and the average black person has quite a few ancestors from other parts of the world in between then and now. Speaking for myself and others who I’ve agreed with on this topic who also have varying degrees of black heritage, once we can trace down specifics, instead of making things up as we go along, then we will actually feel a stronger connection. In different parts of the Americas, the cultural traditions from Africa changed very little and survive to this day: mostly in Latin America and the Caribbean and in French Louisiana, as Anglo-America was much more thorough in excising that heritage from its black slave population.
Furthermore, this identity is very divisive outside of the most Afrocentric groupings. A lot of Africans simply do not understand why some black Americans identify as African-American when they have neither been anywhere on the continent, know anything about the history, the cultures, the languages, etc. Moreover, despite the term being rooted in Pan-Africanism, non-black Africans are pointedly left out of that equation. Outside of Europeans, there are Asians, Middle Easterners, Berber groups, and many others who call several countries of Africa home and may even have cultural roots there that are both recent and stretch back more than a couple of generations. Malay and Indians who have been in the countries in Eastern African and Southern African for generations, often brought as slaves, even occasionally mixing with the black Africans there (in the case of the Cape Coloured, Cape Malay, or the Griqua), who would nonetheless be denied the right (legally and often socially), in America, as identifying as African-American. Similarly with quite a few recent immigrants from parts of North Africa who argue, “Well, I’m actually from Africa, why can’t I identify as African-American?” But someone like me who has no current cultural, linguistic, religious connection to any part of Africa but some distant ethnic connection gets (and in the minds of many, is “supposed” to) to identify (exclusively) as though I’m a direct product of that continent?
Finally, there are plenty of people who would similarly eye roll over your Irish-American identity and ask why you can’t just be satisfied with being American without the hyphen. Here’s one person. And here’s another. Ooh, and a whole group of people who could do a collective eye roll!
As a librarian I was friendly with a family of Egyptian immigrants; the son listed his ethnicity on his university papers as “African-American”, and I don’t know if there were any repercussions from it but it’s exactly what you’re talking about. Culturally, he was French-Arab, but if a person raised in a country on the continent of Africa now living in the US isn’t “African-American”, who is? The term was too vague and inaccurate to be of any use from the start, just like “sport utility vehicle”, which could also describe a motorcycle, a boat used for both pleasure and commercial fishing, a private airplane…
It’s absolutely frustrating how people go out of their way to make asinine comments on blogs or websites they don’t care or know anything about. I’ve seen an artistic nude photographer completely take down his photos from rude and disprectful nit wits making comments like the ones you’ve listed above.
Your blog, along with your commenters, are exceptionally educational, entertaining and enlightening. Personally, from reading this blog my views on prostitution from neutral to wanting to decriminalize it. My young mind hungers for knowledge and this blog, along with others you’ve listed, satisfies it quite nicely. 😛
So thank you, Madame, for keeping your home and party in tip top shape and troll free! 🙂
Good for you Maggie, I’m always happy to see a blogger not allow their blog to be used by grandstanders pushing their own agenda.
I’ve encountered the criticism that you don’t restrict things enough, and that you should moderate more tightly. Well, it’s your blog, and if a reader thinks that you’re not bitch enough, then that reader is free to read elsewhere.
the social workers who say they work with sex workers,trafficking victims etc.,hence they know everything about sex work drive me insane.dont they think that they only attract abused sex workers,because thats the people they need their services anyway?they might as well claim that the vast majority of teenagers suffer from depression and drug addictions,because thats the type of teenagers they encounter.
If the following comment/question I have violates any of the rules you have laid forth above, I would ask that you please let me know which so that I may tailor the comment to acceptability. I have a few serious questions to ask.
How do we look into the eyes of a 15 year old sex trafficking victim and justify to her the existence of the commercial sex industry that allowed her to be raped for someone’s profit? What do we who have supported prostitution say to the broken child that accuses us of being part of the system that destroyed her life? Looking for honest answers here for I don’t know what to tell such a girl.
I will note that although I do not know a specific girl like this, I believe we can agree that such a person exists and, could probably be reached with a minimum of difficult should we find it necessary to do so. If you have an article that already covers these questions, I would very much like to read it since, but I have yet to identify it in your index. Thank you for your time.
The same way you look into the eyes of Little Suzy Strawman and tell her that no, we’re not going to shut down all highways and ban cars because her daddy got killed by a drunk driver while working on a road crew. And the same way you look into the eyes of Paula Posterchild and tell her that we aren’t going to ban agriculture because her arm got ripped off by a combine harvester. And the same way you look into the eyes of Loretta Lurid and tell her that we’re not going to go on a genocidal crusade against dogs because she was bitten by a rabid one and had to get rabies shots in her stomach because she lives in an imaginary world where the more advanced series isn’t available yet…which by a curious coincidence just so happens to be the very same imaginary world where “15 year old trafficking victims” are more than rare anomalies.
Thank you for your reply. Some observations. Cars and highways are requisites to keep society running. Being drunk is not. Combine harvesters are needed to keep people from starving. Dogs, or any pet animal breed for that matter, can be managed responsibly as can any other luxury (along the same lines as drinking in moderation, refraining from texting while driving, etc … there isn’t a useful thing that can’t be abused or doesn’t occasionally break unexpectedly). The example of a dog going rabid (or attacking because it is just angry or hungry) is as you said, an anomaly. Sometimes bad stuff just happens.
Paying someone for sex, however, is one of those things no one needs to do. How many 15 years old girls have to be trafficked into brothels before we say, “OK, we’ve got rethink our values here?” Anticipating the following pushback: what about the girls who have no other skill but to sell themselves? Well isn’t it the responsibility of society to identify such people and help them? It isn’t as if the money to do so isn’t there as it is manifestly being spent in trade of the girls’ bodies, dignity, and mental health (in the case of the trafficked person). Again, my appreciations for your thoughts on this.
You’re right, Brian. And you know what else we don’t “need”? Entertainment. How much money has to be wasted on big Hollywood spectacles, and how many children suffer obesity from sitting in from of TV or video games, and how many innocent musicians have to overdose on drugs, before we say “OK, we’ve got rethink our values here?” and ban all music, movies, TV and games? Isn’t it the responsibility of society to identify people who feel they “need” entertainment and help them with institutionalization, electroshock therapy or properly-prescribed medication? And since as you rightly state, nobody “needs” to get drunk, we should outlaw alcohol; we’ll call it “prohibition” and create a whole bureaucracy to enforce the laws! It will surely work, just as the “War on Drugs” has stopped all drug use and the “War on Whores” has totally ended prostitution worldwide.
And sports! For every sports player who makes it big, there are the vast majority who are trafficked into sports at a young age, and suffer serious injuries in high school which affect them for the rest of their lives! Society should identify the poor, degraded, misguided souls who play sports to get attention, make money or – horror of horrors! – have “fun”, and re-educate them. It isn’t as if the money to do so isn’t there as it is manifestly being spent in trade of the young people’s bodies, dignity, and mental health.
Rape of a 15 year old is already illegal. Rape of anybody is illegal. The “system” that is preventing anyone from helping her or any other raped sex worker is comprised of the anti-prostitution laws and the social stigma that prevents a customer from reporting such an abused teen if he ever saw one or the sex worker herself seeking help.
The oppressive sex industry which you postulate will only exist if prohibition or suppression of sexual services makes it profitable. Like every other industry, commercial competition and free commercial association will allow malpractices to be brought to light and stopped.
You admit that you have no personal knowledge of a 15 year old “victim” as you describe, so all your hand wringing is over something that you have no real knowledge about. Yet there are plenty of non-imaginary homeless 15 year olds living on the street, living in poverty, or being savagely abused. Why not direct your sympathy and efforts to helping them first?
You speculate that poverty might force a girl into prostitution. Poverty forces people into all sorts of unpleasant occupations. Poverty helps spread disease, and encourages all manner of crime. Should we not then attack the causes of widespread poverty as one of the prime causes instead of attacking a symptom that might not even widely exist?
No country or society in the world has ever been able to completly wipe out prostution, even using the most harsh and inhuman means of suppression. And when it is suppressed, it is usually replaced by illicit “free” sex or sex on a barter system. This indicates that commercial sex is far more important to a lot of people than you would imagine. Like any human activity, people will find ways to abuse others. The thing is to address the abuses and not attack the activity.
Bullying in school makes life a living hell for countless children and leads to many child suicides or children dropping out of the education system. Bullying is neither unavoidable, accidental, nor a integral part of education. Bullying is often systematic and for profit. Yet it continues to happen despite our best efforts and increasingly draconian school rules. Should we then shut down all schools in order to prevent bullying?
Part of the nonsense is this: a 15 year-old girl may in fact be a biologically mature woman (have completed puberty) with the hormonal drives of a sexually mature Homo Sapiens Sapiens.
This makes no assumptions about her emotional maturity, her life experiences, or her intellectual maturity, of course. One would expect these to develop in paralell, but not necessarily in synchronisation.
This is one of the reasons why age based consent legislation is so problematic: one (physically mature) 15 year old woman may be naive and badly informed; another might be precocious manipulative jailbait, being also physically mature at the same age.
While I broadly agree that 18 (legal majority here in the UK) is a sensible cutoff for a reasonable level of maturity (physical, emotional and intellectual) it would be false to assume that a younger person was *not* capable of that degree of maturity.
I think almost all of us know of at least 2-3 friends who were sexually precocious, which, when you think about it, informs us about the wider nature of our peer group as a whole.