Chastity: The most unnatural of the sexual perversions. – Aldous Huxley
Though there are a number of feminist disability advocates who try vehemently to deny it, the fact of the matter is that is extremely difficult for some men, especially disabled ones, to get sex by the same means as their un-handicapped brethren. The bluenoses, politicians and neofeminists are even worse because they deny that a man being unable to get sex is even a problem. But since the neofeminists are discussing a subject (male sexuality) about which they know absolutely nothing and the bluenoses and politicians are lying hypocrites, I think it’s fair to completely discount their opinions; and since disabled women may indeed have no trouble getting sex simply because they are in fact women, I think it’s equally safe to presume that they’re looking at the issue through feminist-colored glasses. As a retired prostitute who has been with a number of disabled and otherwise “sex-acquisition-impaired” men and actually listened to what they had to say I can assure you otherwise; such men have the same needs as other men, but because they may be physically repellent and/or incapable of providing for a woman their chances of obtaining sex by the usual means is usually close to zero, and prostitutes are their only recourse.
A few female readers may doubt that a man incapable of supporting a wife would be able to afford prostitutes, but only if she fails to recognize that “free pussy is the most expensive kind”. A man could see a New Orleans call girl twice a month for $600, which is not remotely enough to support even a low-maintenance wife, much less a disabled one; while it is certainly true that disabled people have sex, it is generally with each other because people without disabilities do not generally consider them to be marriageable. You may call this prejudice if you like and perhaps it is, but that doesn’t change the facts: Women, especially beautiful, sought-after women, simply do not date handicapped men unless they’re rich or famous. And in such a case, which is better: A selection of whatever call girls he likes as often as he wants them, or a shallow gold-digger who may eventually tire of caring for him and take a large portion of his wealth when she goes?
There was a regular client in New Orleans who enthusiastically came down on the side of the whores. He had been in a terrible auto accident which had left him partially paralyzed so that he moved jerkily and his half-frozen face was not pleasant to look upon. He drooled, had a colostomy because his lower intestines didn’t work properly, and was rather rough with girls because of his inability to control his movements correctly. But the accident had been the fault of a large company, and his settlement had been very generous; he lived frugally on the interest and still had plenty for fun, including several escorts a month. He was not a regular of any one girl or service; he called around as he pleased and was fond of variety, but he called so often that most experienced girls like myself ended up seeing him every few months. He was not an easy customer to deal with; his physical problems were definitely off-putting even when he didn’t accidentally hurt one or ask for help changing his colostomy bag, and his personality was rather abrasive. If it weren’t for hookers, there is no way he would ever have been able to enjoy sex. But because of us, he was able to enjoy a different beautiful woman every time he wanted one and thereby make up in a very minor way for the shitty hand Fortune had dealt him.
I had another paralyzed customer once, though his paralysis was below the waist rather than on one side of his body. He was not as well-heeled as the other client, but was visiting New Orleans and wanted a beautiful lady to spend the evening with him and show him the sights. Luckily I’m in good shape because I definitely got a workout pushing his wheelchair around the Quarter! We went to dinner at Ralph and Kacoo’s (which I mentioned in my August 31st column) and then returned to his room; obviously this was one case in which I didn’t mind doing cowgirl, because though his penis was functional his hips were not. I went way overtime, but I had already warned Grace that I would and I really didn’t mind; he really was a very nice man and quite pleasant company, but so dreadfully in need of a woman that it almost broke my heart. I still remember how he explored my body with trembling hands, like a teenage boy alone with a girl for the first time; I honestly wish I could force every prohibitionist in America to watch a film of that night so they could be confronted with the spectacle of a “degraded”, “humiliated”, “dirty”, “victimized” whore helping a desperately lonely man to enjoy the gift of Nature despite their efforts to deny it to him.
In the months after Katrina I received a call from a man who wished to hire me for his little brother, whom he told me had been badly burned in a house-fire as a child. This young man, though in his early twenties, was no larger than a 12-year-old boy due to his injuries stunting his growth; one of his arms was useless and ended in a sort of claw, and I could clearly see the two bones beneath the skin. He was bald, his face was shockingly scarred and his body bent, but the brother had the wisdom to warn me beforehand and I was able to mask my natural reaction. But though his body was ugly and ruined his mind was strong and normal; he was intelligent and sensitive, and truly appreciative of my company. He had never been with a woman before, so I made sure I showed him what it should be like; do any of my readers believe for one minute that any amateur his age would have even bothered to get to know him? I am not timid about such things, but I tell you I inwardly shuddered to look upon the terrible damage that fire had done to this unfortunate young man’s body; a typical girl would have either screamed or turned away in disgust. Yet despite his damaged shell he still had the spirit of a man, with a man’s needs and desires; if no woman will give him her favors, is it so horrible that some of us will sell ours to him just as we would to anyone else?
Calls with disabled men are often much more difficult than those with normal men, but can also be much more rewarding and allow one to experience things other women never have. For example, how many ladies have ever had sex with a blind man? My first blind client asked if he could feel my face, and of course I allowed it; after running his fingers over its lines he broke into a smile and said, “Oh, you’re so beautiful!” Then his hands ran over my body, feeling its contours, and he complimented the beauty of my shape as he had that of my face. What other men could tell with a glance he had to discover laboriously by touch, and it somehow made it all the more special for that reason. Another client was deaf, and I had to communicate with him by writing; most of the call was conducted in absolute silence, with the two of us indicating things to each other by pantomime since I don’t know sign language.
There are many disabilities more subtle than paralysis and deformity, but even these may make a man unattractive to amateurs; cerebral palsy, severe epilepsy, gross obesity, missing or amputated limbs and other such conditions often make it much more difficult for a man to find a partner even if he has a good personality, and thus these men often turn to escorts. Dealing with such conditions can range from simple to challenging; an epileptic client, for instance, warned me that when he climaxed he might have a seizure, and I should just make sure he didn’t fall off the bed if he did! As it turned out he did not, but I’ve had clients with cerebral palsy who shook so badly it was almost as though they were having seizures. And grossly obese men can be the most challenging of all for a number of reasons I am sure you can imagine without my help.
To be sure, not all prostitutes will accept disabled customers, so many such clients don’t even mention a disability because they’re afraid of being turned down. But in my experience, few call girls will refuse these men; it certainly isn’t just the money, because in that stratum of harlotry we can afford to be picky and I’ve turned clients down for far less serious reasons than paraplegia. No, I think the main reason most high-class girls readily accept such men is simply because we are high-class and take our profession seriously enough to realize that it would be wrong and unethical to refuse a paying customer who does not merely want our company but desperately needs it.
I’m just stunned at this. It’s not that I never considered it, but I only thought about men that are labelled ‘losers’ not being able to get any.
Wow.
What would’ve happened to these men without the release granted by escorts, do you think? Suicide?
I doubt many of them would’ve been driven to suicide, because they had already survived far worse psychological traumas without killing themselves. But I think my male readers can probably answer the question better than I; how do you feel when it’s been a very long time without? Because they probably feel something similar. Rejection, frustration, deep unhappiness…and all of it completely unnecessary. 🙁
The answer to your question. Its soul crushing and you find yourself questioning your manhood, asking questions about how awful did you have to screw-up your life, how incompetent are you, that you are not worthy of one of the “greatest” (I’m told) things in life that a human could possibly experience.
Wow. My Lady’s quite an unusual person. I too had never considered this angle, and, from a liberal standpoint, at least, it probably makes the strongest case for legalized prostitution I can imagine. (Convincing the conservatives will probably be much more tricky!)
But My Lady asks her male readers:
“How do you feel when it’s been a very long time without?”
Fine, really. I find masturbation very satisfying, and retained my virginity until marriage. It’s better to have genuine sex with my wife, of course, but lately we barely find time for it once a month – and she suffers worse than I do for the lack of physical release. I do think My Lady is correct in identifying a difference in innate sexual needs between men and women, but I suspect the difference is not very strong. There are many women I know of with stronger sexual needs than I have, and also many men with weaker sexual needs than I have.
Depends on what you consider strong. A cohen’s d of 1 or more is rather strong, but still leaves a lot of overlap. A man a bit below average, is still above a lot of women, but there are quite a few that are above him.
For context, the difference in intelligence between american blacks and american whites is about 1 standard deviation. Assuming equal standard deviations, this means that about 15% of black americans are smarter than the median white person. The percentage gets higher of course with a smaller difference.
I don’t know of anyone who has calculated sex drives in these terms, but that would be interesting to see. I did a very quick search, and found a paper that mentions a meta-analysis in frequency of masturbation, a rather good proxy for sex drive. The cohen’s d was actually ~1 in this, so apparently I guessed correctly above. 😛
http://www.peplaulab.ucla.edu/Peplau_Lab/Publications_files/Peplau%202003_1.pdf
I can think of other disabilities which, while not as obvious as scarring or obesity, could make it difficult for a man to get sex by “more respectable” means. Severe stuttering, OCD, schizophrenia (milder forms, not full-on psychosis), maybe even autism, though I’m not sure about that one. Thank God that professional girls are available to these men.
Of course, there’s one disability for which escorts are no help at all: poverty. Even relative poverty, which can leave a man with food in his belly, a roof over his head, and a TV to watch, but no money for escorts (or even streetwalkers) and little for dating.
I’ve had stuttering clients before; above all else they require patience. One must resist the urge to finish their sentences or even let the merest hint of annoyance cross one’s features or else their self-confidence is ruined and the stuttering gets worse. As for poverty, I’m afraid you’ve got me there; a girl does need to make a living, after all. 🙂
no pro bono?
I’m afraid not, dear. 😉
Probably a magnetic card. I’ll let you guess where you swipe it.
It’ll be called the “Digging for Gold Card” and the rewards are based on inches… 😉
Thank you so very much, Maggie! Interrupting someone who is stuttering is the absolute worse thing to do. I don’t understand why so many people can’t grasp that idea. It’s horrible. At times, I’ve lost the ability to talk at all.
And don’t forget shyness, which can be extremely debilitating. So many guys never have sex at all because they don’t even know how to ask.
There’s also general goofiness and wimpishness. Even when a guy is really nice, and girls like hanging out with him, they still may not ever see him as a sexually attractive type.
Too bad you can’t do anything about the poverty, though. $600 a month exceeds half my income. 🙁
Well, you could try looking for a nice semi-pro or street girl; they don’t all fit the stereotypes, and some are quite inexpensive. 😉
I haven’t been able to find a candidate yet who will support Sex Stamps.
Would those be peel and stick, or would you have to lick them?
I see our resident comedians are at it again! 😀
Of course, there’s one disability for which escorts are no help at all: poverty. Even relative poverty, which can leave a man with food in his belly, a roof over his head, and a TV to watch, but no money for escorts (or even streetwalkers) and little for dating.
Prostitution (and to a lesser extent, swinging) does help the more impoverished males, just not in a direct way. Consider the example of Germany, where the growth of professional sex and organized sex has lead to a situation where the number of promiscuous amateurs has begun to exceed the number of interested males, at least in certain domestic markets.
Additionally, many of the males that still bother to trawl bars or nightclubs are romantic types that may be of little interest to promiscuous amateurs. All of this results in “if you can’t get laid in Germany, you can’t get laid anywhere”.
I never thought of that. Well then yeah, bring on the hookers!
Of course, I was already for them, but yeah.
In the past few years there have been a lot of stories about Iraq veterans who are amputees, and the most painful part for me is not the inevitable “learning to walk on prosthetic legs” physical therapy scene, but the almost- as-inevitable “but he actually has a fiancee, -can you believe it?” part. CRINGE! Okay, they don’t use those precise words, but the implication is obvious.
I love that scene in Mask where Cher hires an escort for her son Rocky. That girl was great, and I love that she treated him just like anyone else.
I hate that as well; it almost qualifies as a pet peeve. Male screenwriters are forever penning scenes where a man is disfigured and his wife leaves him because he’s now hideous; a recent example was in Fantastic Four. WTF? I don’t know any real woman who would do such a thing! Though few un-disabled women might begin a relationship with a disabled man, even fewer would abandon an existing relationship just because the man became disabled!
I have never seen that movie, but it’s going on my list now. Thank you! 🙂
Or as Marge Simpson said, “When a woman loves a man it doesn’t matter that crocodiles bit off his face!”
I have to ask, Maggie …
Have you seen the movie yet?
(Mask – Feat. Cher)
It is a great one!
With a great soundtrack, too!
Based on a comment about injured servicemen and MM’s post on sunday, i have established a new charity named:
Hor’s for heroes!
Donations will go to hiring call girls to feed “appetizers” to injured service men and women.
In rare form lately, but all kidding aside, i wish our society was mature enough to actually do something like that!
You and me both; that is definitely a charity I could support! 🙂
How can people be so shallow and insensitive? Especially towards the brave men and women who serve us. Why does he have a fiancee?Because he is a real man who defended his country. And she is a real woman who saw beyond the injuries.
This is one of my main peeves. There are people who cannot easily get sex. It may be because they are disabled, but it could also be for other reasons, not the least of which is that they just might be physically unattractive.
Denying the pleasure of sex to those who cannot get it without the services of a prostitute is not morally heroic. It is, in fact, sadistically cruel and devoid of any righteous basis.
That, by itself, is clear proof that anti-prostitution crusaders operate under the assumption that the ends justify the means. It doesn’t matter who they hurt (whether it be adult or child) and whose rights they trample. The only thing that matters is the mission of eradicating prostitution.
I could write a dissertation on the justification for prostitution without even mentioning the supply side. No one should have the power to deny consensual sex between adults simply because money is part of the transaction.
One person commented on my site that no normal person should ever have to pay for sex (as if so-called normal people are the only ones who have a right to sex). That kind of shallow idiocy is typical of the self-righteous macho male ego. You hear it all the time: “I’ve never had to pay for it.” Well, whoopdy-doo for you, dip shit. It’s not about whether you have to pay for it. It’s about whether you have the freedom to pay for it if you choose to.
You have to wonder how the fuck we were ever able to put a man on the moon given our stunningly limited intellectual reach.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.
Which, I think, is why neofeminists insist that prostitution is a form of rape; by playing the “rape” card they hope to trump all of the offenses inherent in the suppression of our trade. Of course, calling prostitution “rape” is an insult to rape victims, but as the neofeminists proved back during the “date rape” brouhaha of the early ’90s they don’t give a damn about the feelings of real rape victims.
My lawyer (whom I’ve called “Perry” in this column) once told me that one of his law school professors had an exercise where students had to come up with a valid defense for prostitution law other than the “the legislature can make any law it wants to” defense the state always relies on; not ONE of them could come up with anything, which is exactly why the new “rape” and “human trafficking” excuses have become so popular among prohibitionists.
I always laugh scornfully when a man tells me that, followed by “Men always pay for it, even if they pretend otherwise,” delivered in as castrating a tone as I can manage. 🙁
Some people’s ignorance is appalling. I see nothing wrong with this as long as both people are CONSENTING ADULTS.
This was a great essay. Thanks for sharing.
I once overheard my kids’ hair stylist refuse a request from a client for a hair cut associated with head lice. I lost some respect for her that day. Her message was “I’ll take care of your hair when it’s well, but not when it’s sick.”
You’re welcome, JZ. 🙂
Say Maggie, I just wanted to thank you for sharing some of your stories. Combination of really having some hard rejections by women and then being struck by an illness that took 4 four years to recover from left me stuck with that “V-tag” still at the age of 31.
This article really opened my eyes to the idea that a “courtesan” is much different that someone who simply has sex for money. Furthermore, they are often very noble and ethical women who have every right to be proud of their chosen profession.
If I may add your article “The First Time” made a lot of sense and helped convince me that such an encounter could actually be a good and logical thing to consider.
I’m currently been corresponding with some of your colleagues in Nevada about setting something up. I’ve been quite surprised at how intelligent and professional the women are. Heck, even simply talking to them has helped me immensely in regaining my confidence. Its really nice to be able to relax and be yourself without worrying whether or not they are going to judge you simply because your life didn’t turn out how you planned. Very good people.
Again, thank you for sharing your stories.
Central Ohioian
You’re very welcome; I’m glad my writings were able to help you! I wish you the best of luck in finding the right lady for your first experience, and please consider posting about it afterward! 🙂
Thank-you, I’ll do that.
Maggie,
This was an interesting… article for me. Please forgive me if I seem to hedge my words or use euphemisms. Because of my past experiences with people, I am wary about their intentions. As such, I tend veer between caution and outright paranoia.
I had undiagnosed Asperger’s Syndrome. I was born in 1971. I would not learn about it until 1990, while in a mental hospital.
One of the reasons I never developed close relationships with women was due to my mental quirks. It was very galling that most of my female classmates preferred to date upperclasmen than consider me. It stung, like gall in the throat.
The other reason is that when I was in my sophomore year in high school, a close family friend died. That sent me into a deep depression. I would be admitted into hospital, but the principal never told anyone where I had gone, to protect my (and my family’s) privacy.
I’ll spare you the gory details of my youth and young adulthood, but most reasons for my lack of experience with women was my inability to read facial expressions, understanding social boundaries, and other things (normal) people instinctively understand. Compared to them, I’m an old mainframe computer that has to examine each detail and take apart piece by piece.
For many years, I resigned myself to being alone. When my family died, I expected to live a life of solitary isolation, an eremite in a city.
My existence changed when I went on the Moonlite Bunny Ranch message board. I made a few mistakes on there, but I realized that most of the people (especially those… ahem, working girls) were quite understanding and friendly. I can’t say what I did for this past Valentine’s Day on the board (I don’t like blowing my own horn), but I was suprised at the feedback I got.
Now, for the first time in 40 years, I have something I thought did not exist in me.
I have hope.
I also belong to a community that does not reject me for who (or what) I am. Part of me still is torn about being on that board (or for anything else dealing with sex) because I was raised a Catholic by my mom. Cognitive dissonance is very hard for me, because as I said before, I try to reconcile contradictory details.
For now, I take every day as it comes. All I hope for is that with every female I meet, she sees a person who is really trying to be humorous, honest, and good in bed. That is all.
Thank you for this article, Maggie. Forgive me if I’m long in the tooth, but tamping down 40 years of frustration is very difficult.
You’re welcome, Kerr, and please don’t apologize. Everyone has his “cross to bear”, but for a man to be awkward around women is a heavy one indeed because it can result in a situation like yours. But because working girls are up front about what we expect from our male partners, it’s easier for a gentleman like yourself to deal with us than to navigate the complex social interactions required to win the attentions of amateur women. I’m genuinely glad to hear that you were touched by my column, and that you’ve found a community of people who accept you as you are! Please feel free to post here as often as you like; I think you’ll find my readers an understanding, accepting group as well. 🙂
Again. I am just stunned at how my eyes have been opened by this information. Because there’s so much about this perspective that I just never considered.
It’s also amazing how much people need each other and try to act like they don’t…or the old Conservative/Republican/Religious/”Christian” mantra of “normal people.” That’s really making me angry now.
Especially considering the kind of people that Jesus associated with.
Men need sex for psychological as well as physical reasons. Seems that pussy is the validation card for many men.
Hmmm…I’ve got a new question then….what do *women* with disabilities or a high level of unattractiveness do?
Disabled women are still women, and if they’re attractive or have good personalities some men will still be interested. But unattractive women generally find comfort in other (non-sexual) relationships.
I appreciate your comment, KerrAvon, and hope you’re still checking responses. I’m a little older than you, with the same neurological issue, and am very fortunate to have found an understanding woman who has been my wife now for nearly 23 years. If it weren’t for her, I think I’d be a mess – or I hope I’d have been fortunate enough to discover the services of talented professionals. I never have been good at the games it seems are required in dating and relationships, and a straightforward business relationship would, I think, be very refreshing.
I seem to be good at the formal courtesy stuff but get beyond that, and I always felt that there was some rule book everyone else had read that I hadn’t seen. “Here’s my money” would be a relief after some of the baffling dating experiences I had in college!
Ironically, I prefer the company of women to men and seem to do just fine with women to whom I’m not sexually attracted, but add that hormonal thing and foot goes in mouth. My wife is remarkably non-judgmental, I can share my awkwardnesses with her, and she’s actually helped me learn a great deal about neurotypical behavior and how to cope with the normals. I hope you are able to find ways to cope, and with luck, someone to help. 🙂 God bless!
I apologize for my long delay, nuovoiconoclast. I haven’t checked this thread in a while so I was surprised to see your reply. So far, I’m planning a trip to the Moonlite Bunny Ranch in March 2013. All I hope is for that to go well..
This was a very interesting story Maggie! It doesn’t matter what someone’s been through or the handicaps he or she has–desire is something that never goes away, and it’s a natural part of who we are as human beings.
Thanks very much for writing this; I’ll be bookmarking your site and become a regular reader going forward! Wishing you all the best!
You’re very welcome, Colin!
I guess one could call me Moonlite Bunny Ranch (MLBR) message board Veteran. I have participated on the Message Board and the Chat Room for over fives years. (I was one of the first in the Chat Room.)
Five plus years is a long time. I have continued to participate because of the people. They are indeed understanding, friendly, and intelligent.
The culture of the online community and MLBR is similar.
I have made many friends both online and at the MLBR (sometimes both) through the years. Yes, I consider many working girls to be my friends. As well as the support staff and other clients.
Very quickly I found that I would be very upset when people would use labels such as “whore” or even “working girl”. How dare anyone put a label on my friends!
I’m with you on that. I don’t like those terms. Whore, slut, ect..ect.. I know the women that work there don’t want to be referred to by those terms anymore than I’d care to be called a trick or a john.
I’ve warmed up to the ladies as friends and that’s really meant a lot to me. My approach and viewpoint from the beginning has been that so far as looks, physical endowment, or money and toys, I’m so badly outgunned and it would be very unrealistic to think I stood a chance to impress in those areas.
HOWEVER, simply because of the vast array of people who visit there, if I am able to actually earn their respect by being who I am and trying to be a good friend; well now THAT would actually mean something to both the lady and I.
The lady I booked with, I told her flat out that I know the long odds of impressing her with money or physical specimen, my goal was to make her top five more enjoyable clients to work with and top five most fun clients to work with. Her response was “Oh HELL YEAH ! No bs CO you probably already on both those lists and don’t you DARE rule out what kind of abilities you have to make my toes curl, you’ll be surprised”.
But it isn’t just her. I’ve been keeping a list of women that made me promise to stop by to say hello, even knowing we weren’t going to be partying on this trip. Its going to be interesting how that goes because last I looked, that list is getting extremely long !! Its no so much a good so much as it is a GREAT problem to have LOL !!
Hi Maggie,
I love your article. I was looking for someone who had experience this before. Thank you for sharing your story. I’m an escort myself. My agency send me a regular client who had a missing arm. He was the sweetest man ever and truly enjoyed my company.
It easy to point a finger at someone and give them a title or judge them for what they do.I believe that an escort can be a true therapist for most man.
There are so many lonely,sad,hurt people in this world.We are all human and human needs love and attention.
I can’t believe that this occupation get’s so much judgment, hate and humiliation .I had experience some really bad jealousy from people who I thought that were friends.It’s pretty painful.
The irony is that a lot of man who are using these services are extremely kind,classy,great lovers and respectful. So many times I found my self liking them more than just a client.
Sorry about my writing and spelling english is my second language.
Love the way you write this article very interesting.
Keep the good work
Thank you, Bella! 🙂
I’ve been thinking about posting this for a while. This seems to be the place for it.
A Dying Boy’s Wish to Have Sex
I’m very glad he got his wish; I honestly don’t know if I could’ve granted it without crying, though. And isn’t it a sign of our culture’s fucked-up attitudes that there was even a question about whether it was “right” to give a boy his dying wish simply because it involved sex?
Yes, but thank God it was Australia; here in the US he’d’ve died a virgin.
As a longtime “incel” (involuntarily celibate) who last got lucky in 1985, I can testify from personal experience that this can come from a lot of things besides physical disability. In my own case, a combination of being “behind the curve” in high school and college, combined with being forced to live in a small town (galavanting costs money, which has always been a problem for me) has produced decades of unhappiness.
One thing the anti-sex feminists don’t understand about involuntary celibacy is that it often leads to real resentment…both of the guys who seem to effortlessly “get lucky,” and the women who reject us, particularly those in whom we’re interested who try to fob us off with “can’t we just be friends?”
I can understand why, to a woman, a platonic male friend is valuable; it’s simple supply-and-demand. For men, it’s the other way around; if all my platonic female friends dropped dead tomorrow, I could replace them in six months without having to lift a finger. Being fobbed off with something I do not value does not improve my outlook.
I realize this is a particularly old comment I’m replying to, and the person who wrote it will probably never read this, but I can’t help but want to respond to it. Because treating a woman’s offer of friendship like a loogie in the face is common truth amongst a lot of men that has always bothered me.
I can appreciate there’s immense frustration associated involuntary celibacy. I can’t say I can relate to it (I’m female and attractive, sex comes more than easily) but its not hard for me to see how awful it would be and how it could lead to resentment. On the flip side, there’s also resentment that also occurs in women who are constantly sought after for sex, especially by men who consider anything else about that woman to be of “little value.”
Supply and demand is right. If every man who ever wanted to fuck me fell off the earth tomorrow, I could replace all of them in much less than 6 months, more like 6 seconds. I don’t fuck most men who want to fuck me because Im not attracted to most of them. Even if I was and I did, I’d then have to deal with the tremendously cruel social stigma associated with women who are sexually generous; which is one I’d rather not deal with. So, it should be obvious to see why I, like most attractive women, will always be selective with those we choose to sleep with. What else do we possibly have to gain otherwise? (Unless were a prostitute, of course. but I’m not, and don’t believe myself equipped to be.)
For me, an obvious part of that selection is narrowed down to those who don’t feel “fobbed” by my friendship. I prefer to fuck men who would still have me as a friend even if I didn’t fuck them. Because I, like most women, want to be with men who consider me more than just pussy.
I’m sorry circumstances have dealt you a life of little sex. But you can’t possibly blame a woman (especially one with plenty of options) for not sleeping with you if you’d otherwise not care to have her in your life at all.
You make excellent points. Especially your statement about “What else do we possibly have to gain otherwise?”
I think it all just points to the fact that life isn’t designed around being fair or catering to our feelings. We all just have to deal.
The “incels” know about the solution; they even discuss it among themselves, yet they reject professional sex, which thereby excludes them from being involuntarily celibate. Involuntarily single or involuntarily lonely would be more accurate identifiers.
And this strange aversion to having platonic friendships… what better way to expand one’s social circle? If a man wants amateurs, he should start meeting more and more of them, rather than sitting at home crying…
The differences between the sexes are much more than mere supply and demand; compare the sexual behaviors between gays and lesbians for example, when released from the interference of the opposite sex, males default to promiscuity while females still tend to form LTRs, and prostitution is almost unknown among lesbians, while being common among gays.
Final point, you make a reference to a “tremendously cruel social stigma associated with women who are sexually generous”, however even in matrilineal societies such as the Mosuo in China, where no taboo on female sexuality exists, most women have fairly moderate number of lovers, and long-term relationships are very common. There is, of course, an experimental stage in the teens, but a clear preference toward stability thereafter.
Is he rejecting professional sex, or can he simply not afford it? Not the same thing.
When incels discuss prostitution, the problem is always of a moral nature or saying it would not help them in establishing a relationship etc.
Obviously when something is beyond one’s means it is not being rejected in any real sense.
Thanks. Just wanted to make sure. Technomad seems to be unable to afford it.
Unable to afford…and it does not exist where I can reach it.
I can understand that. Once my teeth are paid for, I can start saving up, or if I gave up cable I could save up enough in a few months. But I can’t just hire a working girl every few weeks or even every couple of months.
Then again, I can’t afford to fly Virgin Galactic, either, and I’m still rooting for them.
Speaking for myself as a 44-year old virgin, my reluctance to hire a prostitute no longer has to do with any moral qualms but rather the fear of being arrested, embarrassing my family, and getting branded as a sex offender.
Wow, I’m pleasantly surprised to see people actually read and replied to my comment. I was more or less just getting it off my chest.
I can’t complain too much about being an attractive woman, it certainly has its perks. But a huge draw back a lot of people don’t recognize is that were constantly being put in a no win situation. As I said before, almost every man who approaches me (ultimately for sex, lets be honest) puts me in a situation where I have to reject them, because I’m just not interested in them in that way. Which often results in an awful backlash because too many men don’t know how to handle rejection or even recognize it in the subtle ways women socialized to communicate it to spare man’s ego. If you’re too polite, you’ll be perceived as just playing hard to get, and eventually “leading them on” when you don’t put out. if you’re straight forward, you’re a bitch. And god forbid you just want to be friends.. Gee, how AWFUL..
There’s something truly frustrating about constantly being treated as an agenda. I wish more men would recognize that. They’re far more likely to get laid if they have zero expectations. At least with me.
Anyway, it’s interesting you talk about women having a preference toward stability. I don’t disagree. We certainly don’t have the same drive that men do. But I know for myself I would definitely behave differently if I wasnt dodging other people’s judgements. I’ll never understand why women are viewed as the “complicated” ones when it comes to sex, because I’ve had to construct careful strategy in regard to who I fuck in response to the madonna/whore complex so many men have.
You see, I actually like casual sex. I engage in it fairly often between boyfriends and I believe I’m pretty level headed about it. But from my experience, there are two kinds of guys who will have sex with a girl; the kind who wants her as a girlfriend, and the kind who looks down on her for doing something he took equal part in. Since I have a hard time sleeping with any man I feel doesn’t respect me, I tend to end up with the kind of guy who imprints on me like a duckling. I’ve just never had luck finding a decent guy who’s interested in a FWB situation. Go figure.
So, I’ve made a point to only casually fuck guys who live in a different city/state, or men who are married. They can fall for me all they want and I have a good reason I can’t really be with them that’s conveniently beyond my control. I gotta admit I smirked when I read Maggie’s blog entry about amateur women generally having ulterior motives when they sleep with a married man. I am definitely an exception to that rule. I don’t sleep with them so they’ll leave their wife, I sleep with them because I know they won’t.
Damn… I’ve really derailed this thread.
You never need to apologize for organic conversation. The only “derailing” I mind is when people come in from nowhere and post something totally and completely off-topic, them carry the conversation in that direction. An organic flow is just fine.
I don’t know about derailed. I find this pretty interesting.
Now, about just being friends being something awful…
About the fifteenth time you get “just be friends” from somebody you were wanting romance and/or sex from, yeah, it starts to seem pretty awful. It’s like… um…
I don’t know what your favorite flavors of ice cream are, so make substitutions if need be. For now, let’s assume that your favorites are chocolate and strawberry. You love them equally. But the thing is, it seems like EVERY FUCKING TIME you ask for chocolate ice cream, the store, restaurant, 1950s-themed malt shop or whatever tells you that they are fresh out of chocolate, here, have some strawberry instead. After a while, you don’t want to hear the word “strawberry” anymore, even if it’s said in the nicest possible way. It isn’t that you hate strawberries in general, or strawberry ice cream in particular (remember, you love the stuff), it’s that when you ask for chocolate you want CHOCOLATE, DAMN IT!!
It’s not a perfect analogy. You have “chocolate” but are of course under no obligation to give it to anyone who asks for it. This actually makes it more frustrating for the guy (“Yes, we do have chocolate ice cream, but we’d rather you ate some of our delicious strawberry ice cream instead”). Guy understand you don’t have to serve up whatever they’re hungry for; you’re not a malt shop. We get that. But please try to roll your lovely eyes a bit less the next time a man who wants chocolate from you seems disappointed with your offer of strawberry.
This has indeed been a most interesting turn of conversation, but I must ask Sailor, what exactly are the women supposed to do? I think Yenreit explained her dilemma quite well.
Put the shoe on the other foot; I’m going to assume that you are not bi. What if you were constantly approached & hit on by gay men? If you have no desire for male/male relationships, it wouldn’t really matter how nicely those dudes asked you to be more than friends, would it?
What if they get frustrated, and tell you, stop rolling your eyes when a man wants to sleep with you? Stop disappointing them?
Not a perfect analogy, since Yenreit does enjoy sex with men, but then my ice cream analogy wasn’t perfect either.
I never said “Stop disappointing them” or even “stop rolling your eyes when a man wants to sleep with you,” only that she should be a little more understanding of the disappointment and maybe roll her eyes a little less. I stated in no uncertain terms that she is under no obligation to put out for anybody who wants her sexually and that we men understand that (granted some seem not to).
But it seemed to me that accepting that she doesn’t have to put out for everybody wasn’t enough; it seemed that we were being told that men have no right to be frustrated or disappointed. Life is full of frustrations and disappointments, and all of us, men and women alike, have to deal with this. But good God, can’t we occasionally go on some blog and vent about feeling frustrated and disappointed?
Now I’m making it out like Yenreit is some ogre, and I don’t mean to do that. She also feels frustrated, and that’s fine, we all do at times. Hey Yenreit, please don’t think I’m trying to say that you’re a bad person because you don’t do the horizontal hula with every man who’d like to do it with you. I mean, would you even have the time? I’m just trying to explain why some men would vent about “just be friends.”
At least you’re not saying “like a brother.” I could start my own damned sorority.
@Sailor Oh oh, I see what you mean.
Well, this part: “But it seemed to me that accepting that she doesn’t have to put out for everybody wasn’t enough; it seemed that we were being told that men have no right to be frustrated or disappointed. Life is full of frustrations and disappointments, and all of us, men and women alike, have to deal with this.”
I didn’t get from her posts at all. I thought she was just talking about the double edged sword of being a beautiful desirable woman. I didn’t think she was saying that men have no right to be frustrated or disappointed. Also, I know some overweight and unattractive women who’ve never been kissed. I’m sure that they’re frustrated too.
This part: “But good God, can’t we occasionally go on some blog and vent about feeling frustrated and disappointed?”
I’m with ya completely on that one. 🙂 Again tho, I just felt that Yenreit was presenting her point of view, not negating or minimizing anyone else’s.
We just have to accept the fact that beautiful women with options are just that, and they’re going to exercise them as they see fit, they don’t owe us anything. Plus remember, for most of them, there’s a time limit; as men, if we take care of ourselves we can get distinguished as we get older, and with enough money we can always rent what we want. As long as we don’t mistake it for love, and understand exactly what it is, we’ll be fine.
But there is absolutely *no love potion on Earth* that one could use to *make* someone want you.
“it seemed that we were being told that men have no right to be frustrated or disappointed.”
That sucks you feel that way, but from my point of view, you’re given every right to feel frustrated and disappointed. That’s why terms like “the friend zone” exist. It’s an unfortunate reality I think we as a society recognize and sympathize with. The fact that Im not a man and have never experienced it first hand, yet totally know what it is and why it sucks speaks to that. On the other hand, I really don’t see a lot of people discussing/sympathizing with women who are constantly forced to choose between someones piss-poor reaction to rejection, or sleeping with someone they’re not remotely attracted to.
I never started rolling my eyes at the men who approach me until I realized so many of them would treat me like a queen when they thought they had a chance, and then like pile of dirt the second they found out they didn’t.
I’m 25 now, and still trying to understand the best way to handle these situations since no one ever really taught me. I think its something parents should really teach their daughters; how to gracefully turn a man down and how to keep their boundaries so as not to internalize their insecure and often cruel reactions to it. And, at the same time, teach their sons how to not only approach a woman with respect, but how handle and recognize their rejection with a bit of class, and learn appropriate outlets to vent their frustrations when they experience it too often.
Or….stop blaming the women, and transform yourself into a rich & powerful man, and then women will walk up to you and offer. It works.
You mean stop blaming women for not being attracted to you by becoming something that’s attractive to women? Yes, I imagine that would work quite well 😉
Not with me, however. I don’t know why, but wealth and power have honestly never done much for me. Talk about an exception to the rule; I’ve always out earned the men I’ve had serious relationships with and have been known to financially support them for certain periods as well. Something about a man who thinks he can have any woman he wants because he’s rich is a real turn off for me. Plus I don’t like feeling like I need to compete with other women. I’ve always gone for artistic/intellectual types who are a little “different.”
Thats what’s really wonderful about living in an age where women are increasingly gaining economic power. Those “resources” we would have otherwise been looking for in men we can acquire for ourselves. What’s left is to look for a man we truly love as a person, and whose status we admire more for its virtue than just it’s earning power.
Although I think young men must feel rather displaced because of this. Young women are out earning young men today and it’s affects are young men are rather confused about their role. Although I think it’s ultimately for the better, it’ll be interesting to see how my generation fairs out in the future.
I just watched a couple of ted talks about this very topic, I especially recommend the Rosin one;
http://www.ted.com/talks/hanna_rosin_new_data_on_the_rise_of_women.html
http://www.ted.com/talks/zimchallenge.html
Reading some of what you were writing, yenreit, I almost felt like asking if you were Laura writing under a new name. 😉
Nothing is more recognized in American society today than a woman’s right to turn a man down. A man who comes on to a woman who is not interested is at risk of not only rejection, but also expulsion (if in college) or firing (if in the workforce). Yes, there are men who are dicks, just like there are women who are bitches. You seem not to be a bitch, and I’m sorry if you’ve met a lot of dicks. But the dicks are more likely to be expelled or fired than the bitches.
Yes, there are men who will treat a woman “like a queen when they thought they had a chance, and then like pile of dirt the second they found out they didn’t.” There are also women who will make sure the guy keeps thinking he has a chance (so that he’ll keep treating her like a queen) even though she’s already decided that he doesn’t. This, for some men, is the biggest reason to quit the dating game and just hire prostitutes.
I can’t speak for anybody but myself, but I’d prefer a simple rejection any day. If you can do it without sneering or taking on “how dare you even ask” attitude (I get the impression you don’t cop that attitude), so much the better.
Were drifting far from my point here. I’m not arguing anyone here is saying we don’t have a right to turn a man down. Of course we do. My issue was with the poster who was frustrated he couldn’t sleep with women he wasn’t even interested in being friends with. I have a hard time feeling sorry for that person.
Its probably safe to say most men only have one condition to want to have sex with a woman; she must be attractive. However, in general, women have the condition of needing to actually LIKE the person and be liked in return. If you’re coming in with the attitude of “you’re not good enough to be friends with but you’re good enough to sleep with,” not a lot of (amateur) women are going to find that offer remotely tempting. In fact, it’s rather laughable to think any woman who is not getting paid would find anything to benefit from that. Am I really not suppose to roll my eyes here? It’s hard not to when I’m listening to someone vent their frustrations over not getting something when it seems he had absolutely nothing to offer for it in return.
And yet, as a society, we feel sorry for these guys in the “friend zone.” And thats fine. It’s an unfortunate reality that deserves acknowledgment and representation. And by golly it does! (how many movies are centered around the undesirable guy “getting the girl” in the end?) But what also deserves acknowledgment and representation is not the “right” of a woman to turn a man down, but the reality that women who are constantly treated as agendas have their own set of frustrations, bullshit, and unfortunate situations they’re forced into as well. It’s something I simply don’t see it very often, if ever, which is why I was inspired to write about it here.
OK I can see that.
For all that your first post set me off a little, I think you and I would probably get along just fine. Don’t know that you’d want to have sex with me, 😉 but I think we’d get along.
This is why I found the PC reaction to the recent Will Smith thing so deeply offensive and hypocritical. How would the average woman criticizing Smith react to a strange, creepy man grabbing her and trying to kiss her on the mouth? If she didn’t slap him she might even call the cops and attempt to press criminal charges on him for “sexual assault”, a form of damage which will endure for long, long after the guy Will Smith punched gets over his black eye or bloody lip or whatever. Yet her reaction is OK but Smith’s is “homophobic”? Get real, people; being gay does NOT give you special privileges. “Equality” means just that, EQUAL treatment. Not superior.
“What if you were constantly approached & hit on by gay men? If you have no desire for male/male relationships, it wouldn’t really matter how nicely those dudes asked you to be more than friends, would it?”
I forgot to comment on this part. Truth is, I have been hit on by men. I don’t care for it, but I am polite when explaining that I don’t swing that way. I wouldn’t mind if one of these guys showed up here and asked, “Where are all the gay men that are supposed to live in Dallas? Why is every man I’m attracted to straight?”
About Will Smith: yeah, the only difference is that men do tend to be bigger and stronger than women, so a same-sex come-on isn’t quite the same as a woman being accosted by a man. Still, nobody should have to be kissed by somebody he or she doesn’t want to be kissed by. So I’m with you on this, I think. 😉
How would a woman who slugged a man who tried to plant one on her have been covered in the press and on blogs and such?
“What if you were constantly approached & hit on by gay men? If you have no desire for male/male relationships, it wouldn’t really matter how nicely those dudes asked you to be more than friends, would it?”
No, it wouldn’t really matter.
I have had a few times where I wasn’t asked very nicely. There were a couple of times where a guy I didn’t know approached me for a sexual hook-up and I REALLY didn’t like it. There was something about feeling that I was the target of a type of male sexual aggressiveness that did not care about whether I wanted that kind of encounter — it felt very predatory. I felt like an object and that my only safety from a person like that was my physical ability to protect myself — because he would just take it if he could. I am thankful that I am not an attractive woman because I really wouldn’t like to have to deal with that over and over.
I guess I could be accused of being homophobic because of my reaction but, in fact, I don’t want to be kissed on the mouth by anyone that I don’t want kissing me. There was a girl in college who aggressively tried to kiss me on the mouth who was not attractive to me at all — and I had that same kind of visceral reaction to it. It felt like something foul-tasting being forced down my throat. Sex and sexuality is enjoyable between people when it is consensual. When it isn’t, it isn’t,.
No analogy necessary. I understand the context of the frustration. Just trying to shed some light on the reality that attractive women are often treated as the scape goat by the many guys who carry that frustration. Which is quite frustrating in it of itself.
I’d like to think it’s not a black/white dichotomy; that a man could both want to fuck you and want to be your friend. I do realize that a lot of men aren’t like that, and that somehow sex seems to mess up a lot of male/female friendships – but I tend to think, perhaps ignorantly, that this is a failure of communication rather than an inevitable consequence of sleeping with a friend.
Personally, although there are plently of sexy, sexy women out there that I don’t much _like_, the ones I find the most beautiful are the ones I can talk to and laugh with. “A man does not insist on physical beauty in a woman who builds up his morale. After a while he realizes that she is beautiful–he just hadn’t noticed it at first.” -Heinlein
I’m willing to bet pretty much all of my (straight) male friends WANT to fuck me. And considering they’re still around even though I haven’t, well, that makes them true friends indeed.
As far as ACTUALLY sleeping with a friend, yes, communication is critical, but not always that easy…. People are just weird when it comes to sex. From my experience, a man has a hard time treating a woman with respect and decency if hes “only” fucking her. Perhaps its to compensate for the jealousy he feels knowing she’s not exclusive to him.
During my pre-commercial promiscuity phase I never had problems in the respect department, but I sure had the “ducklings”. There were always guys who wanted to “rescue” me from my life of sin and degradation, and I still had them as a stripper and as a whore; I used to joke that I must be wearing an invisible pointed hat with a veil because I attracted every knight for miles about. Know that song “Jesse’s Girl“? I’ve always hated it because I’ve been in that situation a number of times; it’s like most guys were not content to lust after me or even to fuck me, they wanted to OWN me. Guys who lost interest after having me were actually kind of a relief.
Ha! Good to know I’m not the only one. It’s strange to me how women are stuck with the stereotype of being overly emotional when it comes to sex. From my experience with the men I’ve slept with, they’re usually far more sentimental about it than I am.
I don’t know why I said “from my experience” when I talked about men not respecting women they’re “only” fucking. I meant was that’s generally what I see in men who are “only” fucking other women. Men who are “only” fucking me tend to look like how you just described. Hence my strategy I outlined above in only casually fucking men who are married or live far far away.
Are these men who lack respect also anti-prostitution? That would explain much of the problem.
The irony is that the same type of man will often complain about clingy women and being “entrapped”. Basically, they don’t know what they want and will never be truly happy as a result.
Just aggravates the hell out of me sometimes. What these women do is very noble sometimes and they certainly are not lacking in morals. In fact some of the ladies who do this sort of work, I’ve come to see as being of much stronger moral fiber than most other people I’ve met.
If we legalized it in this country, we could regulate it, and install safeguards to ensure both the protection of both the service provider’s and the client’s civil rights. Its working pretty good in Nevada, why is it so taboo everywhere else ?
I wrote about that last October 7th.
@Yenreit *shrugs* It’s pretty simple. If you’re a dude with no height, no social status, no personality, no sense of humor, or no money, no vagina for you. It’s the Law of the Jungle.
Not sure what you’re trying to simplify for me…
Oh no, I wasn’t trying to simplify anything for you. 🙂 I was just making a summary statement for myself, kind of thinking out loud. 🙂
Heh. I thought you were trying to simplify for me. 😛
Heh. SOMEbody knows how to read between the lines.
Man, all this talk makes me appreciate prostitution all the more. Its truly a shame its not legal and socially acceptable considering the negative externalities put upon other women. This reminds me of an entry I read by Amanda Brooks talking about her sister who is a massage therapist and the new surplus of inappropriate advances from her male clients due to the massage parlor down the street that offered “happy endings” being raided and shut down. Taking away a supply doesn’t remove the demand; it just relocates to in places it doesn’t belong.
I agree. One of the problems with prostitutes having to pretend that they’re not, in fact, prostitutes, is that women who are in fact not prostitutes can be mistaken for women who are pretending, for reasons of criminalization, that they are not in fact prostitutes.
Maggie,
That is a really fascinating post. I remember watching a documentary on Discovery on sex and fetishes some years ago, which mentioned that in some countries the government might pay for the services of sex workers for the disabled. I did a quick Google search and apparently in the Netherlands they do so.
There is an interesting article here. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/7945785/Councils-pay-for-prostitutes-for-the-disabled.html
I especially liked this part:
“One local authority has agreed a care plan including payment for a 21-year-old with learning disabilities to have sex with a prostitute in Amsterdam next month.
His social worker, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said social services were there to identify and meet the needs of their clients – which, in the case of an angry and frustrated young man, meant paying for sex.”
Hi, I am a disabled guy who developed a rare sleep disorder after trying to save someones life in a car accident. Post traumatic stress related. I am good looking, educated, have all my limbs and relatively fit, yet I am damaged – feel broken inside. I have not had a partner for over ten years. Tried a few prostitutes, but I feel I can’t be upfront & open with them for fear of rejection. I feel some are themselves disabled, but can’t be open about it, perhaps because “normal” men might reject them. I can’t email a girl or call her, because somehow it always ends in a let down. I can only manage if I go to a brothel, but would prefer an independent escort.
When I hear of a woman such as yourself who helps disabled guys, I am touched by your sincerity, sensitivity and good heart. You know women are the helpers of men. Prostiutes are the friends of men and should never be stigmatized. Many women won’t touch a disabled guy. Probably because they fear getting their heart involved with someone who can’t earn a decent living.
The most precious thing in the world, after basic needs are met, is sex, which is a loving touch from another person, showing care and affection. You are a sex worker, but also a carer of men. You provide an essential service to those who are usually disabled through no fault of their own. You help to ease frustration and depression and a host of anxieties. What you should do is take your experience and insights and and educate other sex workers into helping the disabled. No doubt you would be blessed for your efforts.
If I were about to die in a car wreck, I would hope that there would be somebody there to save me. So I thank you for being the sort of man who would.
I have no advice, because what do I know that you don’t know already? But I do wish you luck.
It’s not only the sex workers who need to be educated. Many people are ignorant of the fact that disabled people are sexual beings too.
Maggie; I’m one of your most recent ‘followers’. Thank you so much for your boldness and courage in this cynical world of ours…
I am a Christian, but I do not feel you or those men did anything wrong. They were all adults, so it’s not like you were harming a young boy. What you gave them was a gift. Intimacy is a beautiful part of life that non-handicapped people take for granted.
Thank you for this thought provoking and compassionate article. As a disabled person I have been in 3 long-term relationships, 1 with another disabled person and the others with non-disabled ladies so, in my case I know that I am able to form connections with non-disabled people. I may, in the future find another long-term partner, either disabled or non-disabled but, in the meantime I greatly appreciate the services offered by escorts. Without such services my life would be less fulfilled. Sure I have close male friends but, as a hetrosexual male I crave the touch of a woman from time to time and sex workers enable me to obtain that. Anyone can become disabled, at any time and the minority of sex workers who won’t see people with disabilities should remember that the next time they turn down a disabled client. In the future it could be them or someone close who becomes disabled. Thanks for your caring attitude.
Reblogged this on thoughtsofapunter and commented:
A thought provoking and compassionate post from Maggie. Being disabled myself this is a subject about which I care passionately.
Thank you maggie
I am a suicidally depressed 28year old male.
Wich means i pray for death every-day and i attempted it twice.
Comes across and looks pretty normal, but verry disfunctional in a lot of ways
One of them getting stuff to happen with the opposite sex.
I cannot afford prostitutes anymore.
But i had sex with them a few times in the past,
And i suspect that if i would get a prostitute on my door-step once a weak instead of psychiatry, it would be more effective at making me feel better.
two of the four prostitutes i visited, talked to me as if it should be easy to get a girlfriend. just hunt or try internet-dating, Internet sex-dating even,
As if i can easily get a girfriend but was just interrested in sex and this was available.
This really confused me.
I don`t understand that involluntary-celibate men get treated so badly.
If you look at the comments you see under something about this subject.
It makes me crie on the inside.
I feel like i am in hell. and i don`t deserve this
Thank you mage a hundrerd times. and julia, naomi, kelly and amy for the best moments in my life
bye