There’s only one thing wrong with wife swapping. You get another wife. – Scott Roeben
The accepted and more politically correct term for it is of course “swinging”, but frankly I prefer the older term, and it isn’t just because I’m sexually submissive and it’s a lot more descriptive than the rather vague, bland “swinging”. No, the main reason I prefer “wife swapping” is that it’s a hell of a lot more honest. Blah blah blah “sexist”, blah blah blah “objectification”, blah blah blah “ignores the woman’s experience”, blah blah blah. The fact is that, with a few exceptions, most women who swing do so to please their husbands, and so become whores whose price is exactly equal to that of all other women in the “swinging” community. Rather than exchanging cash, a “swinging” wife accepts as her price the other woman’s services to her husband. It is a barter arrangement, so “wife swapping” is both accurate and to the point in a way the mealy-mouthed “swinging” could never be.
The line between the two is narrower than you might think. I’ve known a few married hookers who started out as swingers and then realized that if they were going to do strange men anyhow they might as well get paid for it, and I’ve also known a few retired hookers whose husbands missed the turn-on of their wives with other men and so suggested swinging. Despite neofeminist obfuscation to the contrary, the real mental line which has to be crossed to become a prostitute is the barrier against having sex with strange men; once one has made that mental adjustment, being paid comes naturally. Yes, there are sluts who will rant and rave and fume that they’re “better” than whores because they don’t take cash in hand, but since most of them expect gifts, vacations, spending money, etc their posturing is either denial or excuse-making. And just let one of them get pregnant (because she was too stupid to take precautions, too scheming or fearful to take Plan B and too whatever to get an abortion) and watch how quickly she starts negotiating her price.
There is, of course, one other difference in the United States: Except in locations where adultery is against the law, swinging is legal while prostitution isn’t. Wrap your head around that, now: Both involve women having sex with strange men in return for something, both are often arranged via internet or alternative newspaper ads, both usually involve male infidelity, both are considered shocking by prudes, and both could result in spreading venereal disease if appropriate precautions are not taken. Yet the one which allows a woman sex completely on her own terms and enables her to directly fund her chosen lifestyle is illegal. Let the prohibitionists make whatever excuses they like, because they have no clothes on.
Obviously, most women who swing will never officially become hookers; they aren’t brave enough to go solo, they don’t need the money, they don’t want to risk arrest, they like being picky about whom they see, they enjoy the “club” social atmosphere of swinger groups, etc. And since swingers can be found among all types of people, most swapped wives are average looking just as most of the population is, so even if they wished to turn pro they probably wouldn’t really be able to make much of a living at it. And it’s probably for the best they don’t or can’t; the professional community doesn’t need a bunch of enthusiastic but completely ignorant amateurs glutting the market and undercutting our prices!
But beside the few swinger/whores, the communities intersect in another way: couple calls. A couple call is one way for a husband to ease a reluctant wife into swinging; it also eliminates one potential human factor, and if the wife becomes upset at the sight of her husband with another woman the only consequences are financial rather than social. Even experienced swingers might occasionally hire a call girl, since this allows them a freer (and usually higher-quality) choice of play companions with no strings attached. In couple calls the woman’s reaction is usually the “X” factor (though I did have one experience in which it was the other way around), but in swinging trouble can go either way because both parties have to deal emotionally with “competition”. I daresay everyone who has ever known swingers has heard horror stories of jealousy, drama and the like; there is no way to tell how often such things happen among neophyte swingers, though they would have to be rare among experienced ones or else they would never have gone that far. The biggest potential cause of problems among established swingers isn’t jealousy but rather rules violations.
In an escort-client relationship, the rules are clear and firmly enforced by the professional, but when everyone involved is an amateur motivated only by emotions there is a great deal more potential for drama and even disaster; it is therefore absolutely imperative that everyone is on the same page and the expectations, etiquette and ground rules are firmly established from the beginning. Like BDSM, swinging requires a high degree of trust between the partners, and either activity can intensify a strong relationship or destroy a weak one. And though I do not know this for a statistical fact, I strongly suspect (from personal observations and anecdotal evidence) that in swinging it is the woman who is more often than not the weak link. The reason should be obvious; while most men have no problem separating sex from emotion and can enjoy shagging strange women for the pure carnal joy of the act, many women have a tendency to become emotionally attached to men with whom they have sex (even some escorts have to wrestle with such feelings on occasion). If her own marriage is strong this might present no problem as long as they avoid too many encounters with the same couple, but if her marriage is weak she may attach to her lover more strongly than to her husband, with serious consequences for both marriages. And if she still harbors some resentment for being talked into wife swapping in the first place, those consequences might be catastrophic.
As I’ve mentioned before, I was rather a wild child in university; I experimented, was frequently invited into threesomes and became for a while (at her invitation) the mistress of an older girlfriend’s husband. So as you might expect, I knew a number of sexually unconventional couples, and among them three with “open marriages”. I think these are rarer now than they were in the ‘80s, probably because they don’t usually work. An “open marriage” is essentially swinging without any rules; both parties are allowed to sleep with whomever they want, whenever they want, and as you might expect one invariably does it a lot more often than the other. In all three cases I knew, the wife “wore the pants” and eventually became involved with a shy, easily-dominated boy in his late teens for whom she eventually left her weak husband; I discussed the aftermath of one of the cases in my column of August 19th. The reason I mention this is because it demonstrates the need for mutually-acceptable rules to which both partners strictly adhere; obviously these marriages were all “flawed from the forge”, but even a good marriage can be harmed by swinging if the rules are unclear and feelings get hurt.
One final difference between swinging and “hobbying” is demonstrated by two news articles I recently read; the first reports that swinging clubs’ business is way down due to the bad economy, while the second claims that prostitution has actually increased. Assuming both statistics are correct, I think we can pretty safely guess the reason for the disparity; while swinging also involves the wife (who is liable to nix money being spent on sex when times are tough), visiting whores only involves the husband, who may be no less prone to “let the little head do the thinking” when money is tight than otherwise.
Okay all of this is the most surprising:
“And though I do not know this for a statistical fact, I strongly suspect (from personal observations and anecdotal evidence) that in swinging it is the woman who is more often than not the weak link.”
That’s surprising because I guess it just assumes that a guy could easily get over the shock of watching his wife getting nailed. I talked to at least three guys who said that they tried this, and they all had the unfortunate luck of going to a gathering where there was an extremely well hung stud there…and once they had reluctantly given their wives permission, the sight of their wives being pounded into orgasmic pleasure by a far superior male specimen absolutely crushed them, and their relationships never recovered, as their wives could never forget the experience, and could no longer, try as they might, be satisfied by a smaller dick.
“The reason should be obvious; while most men have no problem separating sex from emotion and can enjoy shagging strange women for the pure carnal joy of the act, many women have a tendency to become emotionally attached to men with whom they have sex (even some escorts have to wrestle with such feelings on occasion).”
This is another one that surprised me. I’ve been told by too many women that they can turn it on and off(emotions and attachment) at a moment’s notice. So I just don’t get this at all.
“If her own marriage is strong this might present no problem as long as they avoid too many encounters with the same couple, but if her marriage is weak she may attach to her lover more strongly than to her husband, with serious consequences for both marriages. And if she still harbors some resentment for being talked into wife swapping in the first place, those consequences might be catastrophic.”
Yeah, well, once I saw the clear unattractiveness of some of the couples that outed themselves on TV, I could see why the guy talked her into it. He obviously wanted a shot at other women without the threat of losing his house and children.
Scorch, that’s a load of crap. Normal women don’t form relationships based on their partner’s sexual characteristics; that’s something only unusually stupid guys do. I’m not telling you that penis size doesn’t matter to most women; that would be a contemptible lie. But what I am telling you is that it is not remotely the ONLY factor in female sexual satisfaction, not by any stretch of the imagination. And even if it were, no sane woman would abandon an established relationship or form a new one based on nothing else. If these women left their husbands it was because they were dissatisfied with them already and looking for an excuse. That “unable to be satisfied by a smaller dick” jazz sounds like a rationalization employed by the men to defend their own inadequacies by pretending it was due to something they couldn’t help: “No, it wasn’t the way I treated her, my lack of ambition or the fact that it wasn’t a good relationship to start with; it was just his huge dick!”
You’ve been lied to. Women can turn off sexual desire, not emotions; why do you think so many repeatedly forgive wife-beaters and some even fall in love with men who abduct them?
I’ve known some very good-looking swingers; they occur at all strata of looks.
“Scorch, that’s a load of crap.”
hahahahHAHAH! Sorry that just struck me as funny, I like it when people are direct the same way that I am.
“Normal women don’t form relationships based on their partner’s sexual characteristics; that’s something only unusually stupid guys do.”
Oh, right I keep forgetting, I’m constantly(understandably) projecting the male mindset.
“I’m not telling you that penis size doesn’t matter to most women; that would be a contemptible lie.”
Truth.
“But what I am telling you is that it is not remotely the ONLY factor in female sexual satisfaction, not by any stretch of the imagination. And even if it were, no sane woman would abandon an established relationship or form a new one based on nothing else.”
Ah, the ever present wtfness to men of this truth…he could be everything that she ever dreamed about physically, but that’s not enough to make her cheat or leave or recommit to the new guy. When guys are confronted with a physical dream girl, it takes every ounce of self control possible not to go with it.
“If these women left their husbands it was because they were dissatisfied with them already and looking for an excuse. That “unable to be satisfied by a smaller dick” jazz sounds like a rationalization employed by the men to defend their own inadequacies by pretending it was due to something they couldn’t help: “No, it wasn’t the way I treated her, my lack of ambition or the fact that it wasn’t a good relationship to start with; it was just his huge dick!”
Yeah now that you say that, I do remember that 2 out of these 3 guys were pitiful submissives, so according to you that had to be the real reason behind their wives connecting to a real man that could properly dominate them.
“You’ve been lied to. Women can turn off sexual desire, not emotions; why do you think so many repeatedly forgive wife-beaters and some even fall in love with men who abduct them?”
Ohh oh oh oh okay; there’s my male mindset again, because it’s the same thing often with us. So the switch that can be flipped is the sexual one, not the emotional one. Wicked.
I don’t know if I’d go so far as to say they wanted to be “dominated” (not without knowing the women, anyway), but it’s true that very few women have much stomach for weak, submissive men.
@thehumanscorch
As someone who’s… attended a party or five in his life, I can tell you that no level of physical beauty, sexual talent, genital endowment or availability will make a woman leave her husband (unless,of course, the husband is a thorough a-hole.) (Most) Women see good sex as a bonus in a relationship, not as a focus, and a wife who’s sexual needs are being met through swinging (and who has a supportive and satisfied husband) isn’t going to do anything to disrupt the situation.
As misandrist as this sounds, its men who are far more likely to leave a functional relationship for sexual excess. I don’t think that I’ve ever met a longtime female swinger who wasn’t *astonishingly* grateful for having an understanding husband.
Bottom line: if her emotional and physiological needs are being met by her husband, a woman sees new dick as a plus and not a need.
Yes, I have been thoroughly corrected for my erroneous thinking. 🙂
But once I understood the hormone level thing, everything made a lot more sense in general.
I’m about to leave home, but I needed to make a post so that updates will appear in my e-mail. There’s something I’m wanting to say here, and I need to think it over first. So I’ll be posting from my sweetie’s place. Probably tonight.
Well, here I am again, a day late (and a dollar short, but that’s another matter).
You know that I’m pro-freedom, pro-sex, pro-prostitution and decidedly pro-Maggie. We’ve agreed on most things and those things we have not aren’t things that need to cost us anything. After all, no two people are going to agree on everything.
You’ve given several examples of things which are not far removed from prostitution and yet are perfectly legal, even socially accepted by most people. I agree.
But Maggie, I’ve notice a sort of theme emerging. There is the statement that ‘men always pay for sex’ with a whiff of ‘so it’s OK that they paid me.’ There’s at least a hint of ‘everybody’s a whore, so it’s OK that I’m a whore.’ Just a bit of the old ‘everybody’s doing it’ justification.
You do this by defining things very broadly. Yes, all men pay for sex, if you define “pay” broadly enough.
I guess I’m not really saying that you are WRONG about anything here, just too broad. Kind of like Red Sonja, the sword broad with a broad sword… no wait that’s different.
Anywho, it just seems that for all your defiance, you still have some need to justify your former profession. But you don’t, you know. Not any more than a chef, singer, engineer or ditch-digger needs to justify cooking, singing, engineering or digging ditches, for pay.
No, not everybody is a whore… and it’s STILL find that you are.
You’re barking up the wrong tree, love. I consider giving sex away to be immoral, like throwing away food. So it’s a GOOD thing when women get paid for it, not a bad one. What you’re seeing isn’t a justification of my profession, but rather an exposure of the hypocrisy inherent in criminalizing the one, single, completely honest and professional form of the harlotry in which 99% of the non-celibate heterosexual women on the planet engage.
Promise. 🙂
It wouldn’t be the first time I’ve read more into something than is actually there. I mean, Go Nagai probably wasn’t REALLY going for Christian allegory when he made Shin Cutey Honey, but that didn’t stop me from seeing stuff about resurrection in a glorified body and the sin nature and all the other stuff I’d learned in Sunday school twenty years earlier.
I do disagree that giving sex away is immoral. Impractical, maybe, but when is giving something away for free ever immoral?
When it’s expected or extracted. Even most gifts given from the heart are given in exchange for friendship, love, etc. 🙂
I’m an escort and I would like to go swinging with my boyfriend, but this post has made me a bit reluctant. I’m not worried about his reaction, but that of possible other partners. I really can’t stand drama and jelaousy.
@Thehumanscortch: I agree with Maggy that “women can’t be satisfied again by a small cock” is complete bullshit. If a relationship is worth anything, then a bigger or smaller cock really won’t matter. Most women I know don’t even want a bigger than average cock, because it quickly starts to hurt during sex! Maybe that changes when women get children, but as a woman in my early twenties I really don’t want a huge cock.
Hi Sina! Since you’re an escort you have a big advantage over most swingers, especially if you’ve done a number of couple calls. Obviously you can’t control other people, but I think you would have an advantage in feeling out potential partners so you can reduce the chance of drama; couples who have been doing it for a few years are definitely the safest to swap with.
I hope to see you around here often; the more sex worker voices my non-professional readers are exposed to, the better. 🙂
I joined a swinger’s club in college but left it few years later as I became more deeply involved with my career. My wife and I have always had a semiopen marriage though, and she’s never been worried about my having sex with other women. The only rule she’s established with me is that I have to let her know I’ve been with someone else. Aside from that, anything I do is perfectly fine with her. She’s bisexual, so if a girl I’m sleeping with is agreeable, she’s more than happy to join in. She positively refuses to have sex with any man but me though. I’ve told her before she could if she wanted, but she said she’d feel disloyal if she did it. I’d actually be curious to know how many women are like her–ie, willing to let their husbands/boyfriends have sex with any woman they like but have no desire to sleep with other men.
{raises hand} Here’s one. Judging by what I’ve seen and heard in the past 25 years, we’re at least as common as those who do want to. 🙂
Yes I’ll definitely stick around, after all there are many interesting posts here.
Thank you! 🙂
Then, if nothing is to be given away for free, all women are whores, as she said.
But think about it, Scorch; would you really want something you didn’t deserve in any way? People value things they pay for or earn in some way far more than things they get for free.
..but who’s to say if I deserve it or not? Her? Who sets the value of pussy, men or women? Who sets the ‘deserving’ standard?
If that’s the case, then we need to go all the way back to dowries and asking fathers and men having to have jobs and the whole nine…it seems it’s a “trying to have it both ways” conundrum.
If I take a woman out, I HAVE to wine & dine her, or there’s no chance. But even if I DO wine & dine her, there’s no guarantee.
So I spend money with no guarantee of pussy in return. Your answer to that is always “go to a professional”, but as we’ve established ALL women are whores, just not all professionals.
Well, of course her! Who the hell else? The one who owns something sets its price, and you pay it or you don’t get it. That’s the way it is with everything in the whole world, and pussy is no exception. If you find the price one woman sets is too high or the terms unclear, move on to another. And you’re right, I’m going to tell you that if you don’t like that game you should go to a professional. If more men did, amateur women might wake up and start playing fair again. Of course, that’s why the neofeminists hate us; they don’t WANT men to have any option but dancing to whatever tune amateurs choose to play. 🙁
Makes sense. But is there some kind of objective standard, a fair minimum price?
Full service in Amsterdam tends to be around 50 euro ($69), while in nearby Arnhem it’s just 35 euro ($48), which strikes me as dangerously close to uncompensated sex.
In economics, nothing is objective; it’s whatever the market will bear. After all, what’s the intrinsic worth of a baseball card?
“I’m going to tell you the answer to your dilemma is to go to a professional. If more men did, amateur women might wake up and start playing fair again. Of course, that’s why the neofeminists hate us; they don’t WANT men to have any option but dancing to whatever tune amateurs choose to play.”
So again…how’s a man supposed to find a wife? It makes no sense.
I don’t advise any modern man to get married in this country; unless you’ve found a woman your BRAIN (not your heart or your balls) tells you is trustworthy, it’s a losing proposition for men until the laws are fixed. 🙁
“I don’t advise any modern man to get married in this country; it’s a losing proposition for men until the laws are fixed.”
That’s what I meant. Old school was better.
Sexual purity was expected, and sexual satisfaction(i.e. learning how to fuck like a professional) was expected after marriage, and in exchange she gets my finances & some kind of security. And I have to take care of my children, whom I could rightfully expect to actually be mine.
I doubt many married women ever learned to fuck like professionals, darlin’; that’s why the men have always come to us!
Okay, obviously came to this post late, but it reminds me of a funny cartoon I once saw. In high school I had a subscription to Omni and I suspect the cartoon was meant for the parent Penthouse. It showed to older couples in evening dinner wear and one of the husbands says, “I’ve got a more exiting idea. Let’s swap cars instead.”
I subscribed to Omni for a few years as well, and I often noticed items that seemed as though they could go in either magazine. 😉
I’ve always wanted to do wife-swapping, but never had the opportunity and it’s too late now.
I’m not sure about the whole “fucking strange men” thing—as I understand it, many swappers start out with couples they already know and socialize with.
If I’d had things my own way, I’d have done it with a partner with whom I was on “friends-with-benefits” level…IOW, not someone who thinks of me as The Love Of Her Life, but more as a convenient partner. That way, jealousy would be less likely to rear its unlovely head.
Where it was said that some of the Relationships never recovered because of the penis size issue , I think it was the man who was smaller that never recovered from it . His wife could still have good sex with him , but that’s the danger of all this . If what was said about this is true than you are only one person away from ending your Marriage or Relationship . How does Jealousy not affect all of these Relationships ?
Sina thank you for what you wrote after I read more I realized that I wrote my first one too quickly . But help me to understand this : when a couple has made it official and the swapping couple is coming over , what are the rules ? Does everyone stay in the same room ? Condoms ? I just don’t see how a couple that’s happy and has a good sex life would bring in another couple . I knew the penis size stuff can’t be true because Women have Children and have good sex after they give Birth . Would you get Jealous ? Can you Truly Love someone and allow them to be with someone else ?
Yes, you can. It can be fun.
As a guy age 58 and married 34 years to a partner with whom I have done everything from swapping, to couples-play, to open marriage for the past ten years, I agree with Sailor; it is possible to love someone and allow that one to enjoy others outside your relationship. Relatively improbable, but definitely possible.
Jealousy has its right function in the human organism, but, like other instincts, it can be consciously handled and rationally overridden when there are no real nor substantial threats.
Whenever open marriage or its kin work long term, it’s because the couple has established a healthy bond that includes total vulnerability/honesty with each other, great communication skills, and sensitivity to each other’s needs and feelings that encompasses being able to “see” the other’s point of view even when disagreeing with it.
Do I believe many people are capable of coping with the jealousies, insecurities, and complexities involving extra-marital partners? No, no more than I believe many women are capable of being escorts.
We may be mammals driven by biological instincts, but unlike other mammals, humans have self-consciousness and high reasoning. So, while I think that lifelong monogamous sexuality is contrary to (typical) human nature, I also concede that, due to the complications that our self-awareness, psychology, and emotions create in us as humans (and create differently for each gender), for many if not most people, monogamous sexuality is the option with the least problems.
Ok , what if one of you gets hooked on sex with someone else ? I know it’s happened but no one is talking about it , why is that ? What if one of you starts seeing this person behind your spouses back ?
Considering the number of non-swinging, non-swapping spouses having affairs, I’m not that worried about any possible increase in likelihood that swinging swapping couples will start sneaking around.
Or to put it another way: if she’s going to cheat on me, she can do it without any swingapping.
Dear Johnny, if a couple agrees to have no cheating/lying/hiding, etc., this can be avoided. Personally, I’d rather be alone the rest of my life and/or dead than have it any other way. Also, loving more than 1 person at a time isn’t something to be automatically feared. I used to believe that and now know that for some (like me) it isn’t always an automatic betrayal of the 1 you love already. I was too scared of socializing with sex only friends in the past. I’ve broken out of that (am very thankful) and am now the happiest I’ve ever been in my personal life. Our society also pushes that if men want to be with more than 1 woman (for sex only and/or a full relationship) that’s always fine because that’s how men are but if a WOMAN wants to be like that it means that something’s really wrong with her full relationship and she’s wanting to be with others because of that. ###*** that. It isn’t an automatic. The things I’m talking about aren’t for everyone and those they’re not for shouldn’t be called “prudes”, etc. I’m saying these things to let you know that they do work for some and also to go against the “gloom and doom” pushed in our society about these things. Whatever your choices are I wish you the best.
What about condoms when swapping it common practice and do you meet up at hotels or at your place ? Yes you can see I’ve never done it but I am at least trying to understand how a swinger thinks . I also think that people who say they don’t get jealous are full of it . How can you not be ? But I guess if that’s what you want to do than go for it .
I’ve watched the woman I love with another man, and it was hot. Now, if I thought she was going to leave me for him, I’d be jealous. But she isn’t, and I know that, so it’s just hot and, in a strange sort of way, very sweet.
Dear Sailor B, THANK YOU for speaking up. It’s needed information for those who are considering an open relationship/want info about them and also to break the “gloom and doom” ###*** in our society plus putting people into what I call safe little category boxes in the sexual area. Thanks again and glad we’ve shared these “times of hotness” and will keep sharing them.
Dear Johnny, you may want to check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4vF_GW5jWk I think it might be the same 1 Sailor Barsoom and I watched years ago. Since it’s on YouTube if it’s the same 1 the nudity, etc., would be cut out, but the other info could be a help to you. Please know it IS possible to have an open relationship (there’s other names for this, like “arrangement”, which is 1 of my favorites) and have no jealousy involved. Sailor Barsoom and I have had 1 for years. The only problem we’ve had is when a past sex friend of Sailor Barsoom’s tried to split him and I up. Yes, it was a very rough time. I’d never deny that. I broke up (to a degree) with him for a while over this. But, through honest communication, etc., we resolved it and got back together. I’m very thankful that none of my sex only friends, etc., ever tried to split him and I up. 1 of the conditions for any sex only friends, other boyfriends, etc., of mine is that if they do try to split Sailor and I up it’s over for me. They’re told this up front along with I don’t do any kind of cheating/lying/hiding, etc., with them and if I find out I’m being lied to as far as them having someone else who isn’t OK with them seeing others we’re through and I break off contact. I also put in all my personal ads plus any other offers I make that I won’t see any married people (even if they have an arrangement) or anyone who’s not married but has a partner who isn’t OK with them seeing anyone else. Sailor and I have a list of rules as far as seeing other people goes. They’re worked very well for us. Please know I’d never say that if people don’t want to have an arrangement there’s something wrong with them, etc. I’m fed up with those who are sexually conservative being called “prudes” and having unfair blanket statements, etc., made about them. Arrangements aren’t for everyone. But, I do want to let you know they can and do work. You’re welcome to ask me other questions if you like. Take care.
Life is short and we are imprisoned in our bodied and chained by social stupid rules and does and not do does.
to spice this short and nonsence life you better do what ever you want to do
and break all the freedom restricting bounds
your wife and you share your fantasies and joys with some other people
let them enjoy your warmth and you too feel other human beings inner and outer bodies
I love to swap and moaning of my wife from the others touch turns me on
like a hell
You said, “with a few exceptions, most women who swing do so to please their husbands.”
I have heard that said too, in maybe four or five podcasts I listen to, from swingers in various places around the country — the best of which, I think, is “Life On The Swingset.”
But they don’t use precisely that wording, and they don’t stop there. What they say, in full, is something like this:
“Most couples start swinging because the husband loves the idea of it. And most couples who continue to swing do so because the wife discovers that she loves the reality of it.”
The “standard narrative” of the “wife swapping” of the 1960s and 70s has husbands swapping their property — their wives — with the other husbands. Very male-centric.
However the podcasters today agree that swinging, today, is controlled far more by the wives. Many of the male podcasters describe the process at a club: “We encounter a couple who looks compatible. Then the wives go into the powder room while we guys hang out at the bar. When they come back, if their eyes are bright with a ‘good to go’ look then it’s ‘game on.’ If they come back with a ‘not gonna happen’ look, then it’s not gonna happen.”
While conferring, these wives compare notes with each other, directly, about their rules and boundaries; about their interests and preferences; and about anything else that might make them uncomfortable.
Because they know they cannot trust their husbands to get such a conversation *right*.
Now, this is second-hand reporting. My only personal experience is a couple of visits — one to a local club with a female friend and one to a local meet and greet, solo.
In each case, it was the women who were doing the evaluating — well, the evaluating that had any real meaning. The husbands mostly stood back, protecting their wives by making sure that no assholes tried to break into their vibe.
I know that there are swingers, and then there are swingers. A female friend of mine had a ghastly experience with a swinger-couple, a year or two ago: they treated her like a piece of sexual furniture. I think they were deeply insecure about their marriage-relationship, and were frightened to death that their marriage might blow up if they actually encountered a third human being in their bed.
But I wouldn’t take that couple as a poster-child for all swingers. There are swingers, and then there are swingers. 🙂
And some of them are couples whose wife has discovered that — by damn!! — she *loves* having sex!! and having sex with new partners!! and knowing that her husband is having a good time too, so she doesn’t have to worry about him!!
Yeah, I know. Who knew??? 😉
And many of these wives never realized that this was OK. “I’m a good girl, I am; so of course I don’t love having sex — good girls don’t love having sex, do they?” Until she finds that she does, and finds that she doesn’t have to cheat on her husband to do it, and doesn’t have to divorce him to get it, and, well … et cetera.
So — they started, because of the husband. They continue … because of the wife.
Although my wife and I (married 34 years) are among that small minority of couples in which it was the wife, not the husband, who first suggested swinging, during the 14 or so years my wife and I have had extra-marital sex partners we’ve observed RunSilent’s pattern to be typical.
It might be significant that our circles have been over-age-40s, many who are long-term couples married for decades as we are. I get the sense from my experiences and observations and discussions with theses women and couples that, once some woman have developed very secure relationships with a partner over a long-term and still find their emotional fulfillment in that primary relationship, those women discover they are actually able to enjoy extra-relationship sex.
As I mentioned in an earlier comment above, I don’t think most if even many women are capable of this even though they’ve been in a long-term, secure relationship, but, yes, a significant number of (at least over-age-40) women apparently are.