What is a wife and what is a harlot? What is a church and what is a theatre? Are they two and not one? Can they exist separate? Are not religion and politics the same thing? – William Blake, Jerusalem (plate 57)
Ever heard the expression “as nervous as a whore in church” (alternately “sweating like a whore in church”)? It is, of course, based on the bizarre but popular notion that sex (especially commercial sex) is somehow incompatible with religion, and that a hooker would therefore be nervous at a religious service. As with so many popular myths about prostitution, nothing could be farther from the truth; whores are morally indistinguishable from women in general, run the gamut from devout to atheistic, and have the same sorts of beliefs (or lack thereof) as other women. As we’ve discussed many times the earliest professional prostitutes were priestesses who worked in conjunction with temples, and despite the efforts of neofeminists to convince the world that they never existed and those of control freaks to persecute their modern successors for “crimes” against Christian sexual orthodoxy, they demonstrate that not everyone considers sex and religion to be incompatible. Nor are all religiously-minded harlots pagan; though many are, and many others practice syncretisms of Christianity and paganism, the majority practice whatever religion they were raised in just as so many others do.
Erroneous prejudices like this one can only survive in a climate of ignorance; exposed to the light of truth they tend to wither away. I know for a fact that many prostitutes are religious because as a whore myself I’ve had the opportunity to talk to and observe the behavior of dozens of my sisters. I have been asked to pray for them or their families on many occasions, and my operator Gilda (whose story I told one year ago today) did not feel her job as an escort service dispatcher in any way made her less of a Catholic. Even non-sex workers who take the time to talk to us often have their eyes opened; in a Christmas Eve essay on Huffington Post Rabbi Will Berkovitz told the story of an Italian priest who tried to avoid a group of streetwalkers who worked near his seminary:
The priest confessed he never spoke with the women, studiously avoided eye contact and did his best to never acknowledge their existence. But as is often the case, willed blindness only works for so long when proximity is coupled with repetition. And one day, while following his usual protocol of denial, the older prostitute dropped something as he was walking past. It bounced to a stop at his foot. Without thinking, the priest’s instinct toward kindness compelled him to pick up the thin wooden object, forcing the encounter he had so dutifully avoided for the past several months. “It was a knitting needle,” he said, still sounding surprised. “And out of curiosity, I asked her what she was making.” The woman responded, “I’m knitting a tapestry for the altar at my church. It is a gift for God.”
Tears welled up in the priest’s eyes as he recalled her response. “In my desire to avoid her, I had never noticed the cloth in her hands. I never bothered to look. Never thought to ask her story. And here this woman was knitting a gift for God.” From that chance encounter he said, he began to learn her history. Her background. Her story. And yet the priest was reluctant to share his experience with his community despite its almost biblical power and impact.
Like the priest (before Fate took a hand), those who willfully avoid thinking of sex workers as “real people” by avoiding any actual interaction with us shield their minds from the truth and can therefore believe whatever ugly nonsense they choose to invent about our immorality, selfishness, unfitness to give charity, danger to “innocent children” or other forms of moral turpitude.
Whores aren’t the only targets of Judeo-Christian prudery, though; in fact, those who embrace such beliefs usually do more damage to themselves than to anyone else by burdening themselves with sexual guilt and convincing themselves that normal sexual impulses constitute an “addiction”. But though there are plenty of opportunists ready to capitalize on this sick view of human sexuality, there are others who make their living in exactly the opposite way: selling sex toys to (heterosexual, married) religious couples by packaging and advertising the products without the graphic pictures and tasteless text relied on by secular distributors, and pointing out that satisfying sexual relations strengthen marriages. And if entrepreneurs can sell dildos and whips to Christians, maybe there’s hope that they may one day return to the practical view of prostitution which characterized the medieval Church.
Question:
What would be considered, either by Maggie and/or other regulars on this blog, deviant sexual behavior?
We’ve spent a lot of time understand the distinction between natural sexual behavior and hysteria, but what types of behaviors actually cross the line into deviancy?
For me, I think anything with kids is “deviant”. I think any fantasies about kids is an indication of deviancy. Incest to me is deviancy – although none of us would be here without it I suppose. I think any man who would force himself on a woman is a deviant. I have nothing against “play games” but any man who “gets off” by causing true and unwanted pain to a woman is pretty sick in my book – and worthy of a beat down.
I don’t think homosexuality is deviant. Orgies – not deviant. Threesomes – not deviant. Anal sex – (yuck! Why does anyone want to do this?!) – not deviant.
I guess most of what I consider “deviant” involves someone actually being harmed against their will – or someone being harmed who shouldn’t be harmed, like kids.
One of my “peculiarities” … in my younger days I thought it was deviant and wasn’t too proud of it – but I really like serious pain during the act. I am not the least bit submissive (EXACTLY the opposite) … and I can’t tell you why I love it (I have no clue). But I do like to have my chest bitten HARD and the flesh on my back (upper and lower) opened up with fingernails. I had a “sith” girlfriend who discovered this about me many years ago and she took great pleasure in seeing just how far she could take it before I screamed “uncle”. On a couple of occasions, she had to throw me a towel to clean up blood and evaluate to see if I needed stitches (I never did).
Anyway – my only explanation for it back then – was that somehow I liked the idea of the girl “fighting” back against me. I thought this was fairly “sick” and “deviant” and must be related to some deep-seated rape fantasy. I don’t think that anymore – I have never, and never would harm a woman or force her to do something against her will – and I’d break the neck of any man I caught harming a woman that way.
It depends on how you’re using the word “deviant”. In the strictest sense, any multi-person behavior which does not lead to reproductive heterosexual intercourse is deviant, so condom use, homosexuality, some kinds of BDSM, oral or anal sex as a substitute for intercourse, etc are all “deviant” because they “deviate” from the biological reason for sex.
In the most common sense, any behavior which is practiced only by a small minority (such as BDSM or exclusive homosexuality) is “deviant”.
But in the clinical sense, there is an increasing consensus that only sexual behavior which disrupts the person’s life or causes him distress, or causes him to (actually) harm others, is pathological and therefore “deviant”.
Any college football fan who takes pleasure in Alabama beating LSU is deviant.
And there’s a lot of deviant bastards at work here today that won’t leave me alone! 🙁
My experience is that men are generally prudish and easily disturbed by unusual sexual thoughts or acts, while women, esp. in a state of arousal, have few if any limits when it comes to sex. That said, the greatest libertines and deviants are men — but such men are surprisingly rare. The hungriest readers of Sade are women.
It’s instructive to read contemporary “erotica,” surely some of the most cruelly boring text ever written, and then turn, say, to Sade’s Juliette — one is struck by how timid today’s writers are, even in the supposedly limitless realm of fiction. Not to say Sade isn’t boring as hell; but at least he is heroically boring.
I often wonder if there is less of anything in the universe than readable writing about sexual experience.–
I’m surprised at the quote from William Blake, but he was a strange dude.
What do you think of the Muslim women’s movement in Indonesia that wants all wives to act in bed as if they are whores? Sounds like a good idea to me and as far as I know the authorities have been powerless to stop it.
I wrote about the “Obedient Wives Club” (that’s its name) back in June.
William Blake drew a great Red Dragon, clothed in the rays of the sun.
Do you see?
“Manhunter”! I love that movie and used to own it on VHS. I’m replacing those movies as I’m able to afford to on DVD. My brother told me about “Manhunter” years ago and I bought my own copy after watching his. I love the main character in it for his heroism and how he wouldn’t let up on trying to find the “Tooth Fairy”, how he wouldn’t let his upset at talking to Hannibal Lecter stop him from doing it in order to get info to stop Tooth Fairy, etc. He reminds me of the detectives in real life who are this way (thank God for them).
Laura,
I cannot believe someone recognized this! It’s an absolutely brilliant movie and there was never a better Lecter than Brian Cox.
“What disadvantages, Will?
You’re insane.”
Fans of Manhunter are a solid breed. 😉
Thank you, Laura, for picking that up!
How could I ever forget the “Tooth Fairy”? I love the movie also and think Brian Cox was as great playing Lecter as Anthony Hopkins was. Unfortunately, my strong interest in true crime and SOME fiction about crime (like the “Red Dragon” book) came from a family tragedy. I wanted as many “answers” as possible. These books and movies have helped me a ton! I know they’ve helped others like me also. Thanks for the “solid breed” compliment! I’ve noticed in your posts about crime you’ve taken the time to study it some and your interest isn’t just ghoulish (unfortunately, when you go through some tragedies you’re able to spot quickly the 1’s whose interest is only ghoulish because once you tell your story, etc., you run into those people right away). I was VERY impressed a while back when you recommended books about prisons. I find it very sad and disgusting when people write about prisons, crimes, etc., like they truly know how it is to experience them when they never have. 1 of my “favorite” groups that does this: those who say they know EXACTLY how they’ll act, what they’d say, what they do, etc., if they have a family member and/or friend murdered. Another “favorite”: those who write about crime but never bother to talk to the 1’s who are victims/survivors of it and/or the survivors of crime victims. Thanks again for your kind words.
Laura,
I’m glad I checked this thread again. Your comments always surprise me, and that’s a great delight. You’re full of the unexpected.
I’m interested in true-crime as a genre because in these books one can sometimes taste the tang of the real, without the often distracting gymnastics of style that mar so much “creative” writing.
If there’s a way I could anonymously send you a new DVD of “Manhunter” I would very much like to do so.
I’ll understand, however, if you’re uncomfortable about receiving a gift from a stranger. Just thought I’d make the offer.
If she wishes, Laura could direct you to her Amazon wishlist, from which you could send the DVD without even knowing her address.
Maggie,
Is the sender’s identity revealed to the recipient? It’s not clear from a google/askville search.
I thought you might know since you’ve received gifts this way.
And may well receive more. 😉
Thanks in any case for the suggestion. I’ll check back for Laura’s response.
All of my senders have identified themselves, but I don’t know if it’s automatic. Try submitting the question to Amazon’s customer service; I’ve found them quite helpful in the past.
And if entrepreneurs can sell dildos and whips to Christians, maybe there’s hope that they may one day return to the practical view of prostitution which characterized the medieval Church.
As long as we don’t have to work outside the city walls. 😛
Concerning the neofeminist urge to deny the existence of sacred prostitutes and sacred prostitution, I’m not sure which infuriates me most: the outright denial or renaming them “love priestesses” or something similarly fluffy and non-threatening to modern sensibilities. Oh and did you read the story about the (possible) ancient Roman brothel coin found on the banks of the Thames outside of London? A curator for (I think) the British Museum immediately jumped on the “the prostitute was a slave, just like prostitutes in modern day London are enslaved” bandwagon. **eye roll**
If you have a link for that story, please send it to me; I’d be interested in finding how someone so ignorant of Roman culture got into that position.
http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2012/01/a-roman-brothel-token.html
It’s at the Museum of London, not the British Museum; my mistake.
That Italian priest would have made an excellent Pharisee.
Thought you might appreciate this since you have an affinity for nuns.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jan/05/sanctuary-sex-workers?INTCMP=SRCH
When I first read it, I thought that this was going to be prohibitionist piece especially since it mentioned the 2012 games, but I did a little digging….
http://www.islingtontribune.com/news/2010/jan/gong-prostitutes%E2%80%99-%E2%80%98super-nun%E2%80%99
She doesn’t fuel the abusive pimp fantasy, and she subtly condemns the police in their treatment of streetwalkers, and she’s for decriminalisation.
Thanks very much for these links!
The priest story is a wonderful illustration to just how far people will go to avoid truths that they don’t want to acknowledge. It’s easier to decry the wicked sins of prostitutes when it is some vague concept without any clear definition or face. But when he actually saw the person behind the haze of his prejudice, he was unable to deny it. One wonders how some of the most vocal proponents of third world rescue operations would react if they saw first hand the damage to the women who were “rescued.”
When arguing with anti-prostitution fanatics the priest’s story should be told. A nice reminder that behind all the rhetoric, statistics and politics are people and consequences they have to live with.
Hi Maggie,
I don’t know if you saw this, but in reference to your phrase ” those of control freaks to persecute their modern successors for “crimes” against Christian sexual orthodoxy” above, I thought you might like this.
Vigilante gangs of ultra-conservative Salafi men have been harassing shop owners and female customers in rural towns around Egypt for “indecent behavior,” according to reports in the Egyptian news media. But when they burst into a beauty salon in the Nile delta town of Benha this week and ordered the women inside to stop what they were doing or face physical punishment, the women struck back, whipping them with their own canes before kicking them out to the street in front of an astonished crowd of onlookers.
I get a warm fuzzy feeling seeing these women stand up for their choices in the face of these “morality police.” I have to say that seeing the juridicial equivalent for drug warriors and abusive cops and prosecutors in the United States would give me a warm fuzzy feeling as well because such people reflect the exact same mindset of the Islamic Committees “For Virtue and the Prevention of Vice.” Unfortunately, enough Americans agree with them that the well deserved institutional beat down of these deviants is still a long way off.
It would have to be judicial; in the U.S, cops make sure they outnumber their victims at least three to one and have clubs, pistols, tasers and pepper spray; if it’s a “drug raid” add machine guns, body armor and sometimes a tank.
And when they’re going after real criminals, I’m all for the cops having overwhelming force. Encourages the crooks to surrender, and so nobody needs to get hurt. Their job isn’t supposed to be proving “I’m tougher than you are in a one-on-one” but rather stopping the bad guys.
Unfortunately, they take the same tactics against hookers and trippers and tokers and sometimes even strippers as they do against murderers and rapists.
Actually, that’s not true; they use MUCH greater force against people they don’t think will fight back. When they actually respect the target (like that gangster who was arrested last year), they negotiate rather than kicking the door down.
Anecdotal evidence: One of my boyfriends was once arrested for assault after beating the crap out of a guy who had insulted me (I wasn’t there to stop him). He told me that the police were very polite to him, even deferential, though when he had gotten tickets or the like in the past the cops had always tried to push him around. In other words, they only bully people they expect to be afraid of them, but show “bad-asses” the respect they should give to everyone.
Exactly true, Maggie.
Compare this treatment of Whitey Bulger – who you mentioned – with the Weber County SWAT actions that follow.
From the WSJ:
At 4 p.m. Wednesday, authorities began conducting surveillance of Mr. Bulger’s apartment and soon saw two people who resembled the fugitives, Mr. DesLauriers said.
At 5:45 p.m., agents “lured” Mr. Bulger out of his apartment and arrested him, Mr. DesLauriers said. The agents then arrested Ms. Greig in the apartment.
Now take a look at this “justified” shooting. (I’m quoting, in quotes, the Weber Prosecuting Attorney’s ruling on it.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSfOBPlY2n0&feature=player_detailpage#t=24s
By the way, this is the same wrecking crew that went after a former veteran in Weber County 5 days ago. He killed one and wounded 5 of them. His only “criminal” record was driving without insurance a number of years ago. But the same Weber Prosecutor describes this as “extensive criminal history.”
They also said he had photographs portraying himself as a terrorist. Because he went to a Halloween party dressed as Osama Bin Laden. But the Prosecutor’s office neglected to mention that.
He survived this thug-squad only by virtue of being armed. But the Weber Prosecutor wants to reverse that outcome.
Cops are bullies. They exhibit classic bully behavior. And until the state starts prosecuting these murders under color of law and the the citizens start firing the prosecutors who refuse to, this kind of thuggery will continue.
You know, I think that if the cops were only allowed to go after those who committed crimes of violence or property, a lot of the bullies would be discouraged from joining in the first place. If all one wants to do is go after soft targets while acting tough (as opposed to being tough, which is another thing altogether), one might avoid a job where the targets are anything but soft.
I agree,
If there is a place for these kind of police actions they should only be against known violent criminals. And if the police screw up, civil penalties of the jurisdiction to make the victim whole should happen administratively, without having to go to court.
But now, police jurisdictions think that it is a legitimate use of lethal force to “Send a Message.”
Dear Maggie, thank you for talking about the sex aids where the packaging doesn’t have all the crude stuff on it! I love this packaging. Personally, I hate the crudity that’s in porn videos, magazines, etc. and always have. I also hate the swear words constantly used in some porn videos. I’m very thankful that none of my sex only friends ever used swear words towards me during sex. Personally I see that as verbal abuse and having gone through that HELL in my life until age 24 from 1 parent I don’t want any part of it anywhere in my life. My abuser hardly ever used swear words towards me (to her credit), but to me the constant swearing in the videos is too much “in the neighorhood” of my past verbal abuse for me. Talking about these sex aids is proof that not all married Christians (I’m not 1 of those as Sailor Barsoom and I aren’t legally married…it’s a long story why we’re not) are having sex in the dark with their eyes shut and the women just lying there and are only having sex for pregnancy. We believers hate that stereotype. God didn’t intend sex for Christians for JUST pregnancy. I love how the 1’s who push this stereotype never mention the “Song of Solomon”…lol! Yes, the Bible tells believers to limit the type of sex they have, but that does’t automatically mean that sex has to be boring and just for pregnancy. Thanks for listening.
You’re welcome, Laura. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m no fan of “nasty words” myself; I have no problem with Anglo-Saxonisms but I can’t stand the “cute”, “clever” euphemisms which are substituted.
Regarding nasty words. I dislike any nouns that denigrate a person. I dislike the word bitch just as much.
As Maggie points out, the Anglo Saxon words for genitals are very, very old.According to “The Woman’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets” by Barbara Walker, the word cunt gave us the words cunning, count, country and kin. “Cunctipotent” is an actual word which means, more or less, the Almighty Cunt. As well it should be; otherwise babies wouldn’t exist.
What about euphemisms like pussy and beaver? Both refer to a living thing that is soft, furry, and nice to stroke. As for cock and dick, the only alternative is penis, which is much too medical sounding for love making. The Sanskrit word Yoni, which is euphonius, means the vulva and the womb together. I think it’s a very pleasant word. In addition, the symbol for the yoni () refers to the magic power of the Goddess.
I think the limits can only be personal.
“Pussy” is my favorite word for the vagina and “cock” for the penis. I’m with you on words that denigrate ESPECIALLY “slut”. Same goes for “bitch”, but, unfortunately some women deserve that label. The truth is I love men with manners. I think I got this from my Dad who practiced what he preached to my brothers and I (thank God). I personally hate it when men swear constantly. I’m very thankful none of my sex only friends were like that. I’ve worked on my own amount of swearing for a while now and am doing better. I really try to never do it in public especially around kids.
I’ve always been partial to “well of affection” and “throbbing python of love,” but that’s just me. 😉
It IS a long story, and I could be moved to the use of crude language if I tried to explain it.
For some reason this reminds me of the Mary Magdalene story. If Jesus could be loving, civilized, and understanding with a prostitute, why can’t Christians?