We have to accept the truth…the oldest profession in the world [will only disappear] when humans no longer exist. – Khuat Thu Hong
A Tampa massage therapist, Jasmine Tridevil…contacted more than 50 doctors before finding one who would give her [a] third breast…The surgeon she found couldn’t create a silicone areola, though, so she had one tattooed onto the implant, which is made from silicone and skin tissue from her stomach. While Tridevil’s dream is to star in an MTV reality show, she [said]…she had the surgery to become “unattractive to men” in addition to gaining fame. “I don’t want to date anymore,” she said…
Alas, there is strong evidence that the story is a hoax.
Here’s a good example of how criminalization makes sex workers vulnerable to extortion; Terra Jones not only shares the actual letters, but details the total uselessness of Alaska cops in responding to them and explains how “sex trafficking” laws have made conditions even worse.
Any amount of criminalization, no matter how slight, gives “authorities” an excuse to harass whores, even to the point of paying men to rape them: “Fred Allen…is a gun for hire, having received tens of thousands of dollars from Sydney’s…councils in exchange for crucial evidence that is presented in court to help expose and close underground parlours. In short, Mr Allen has paid sex with prostitutes and ratepayers foot the bill…” Yes, I would class having sex with a woman for the express purpose of harming her – stealing her job or even getting her deported – as a form of rape. No, I don’t want to debate it.
Pearl-clutching sociologist agonizes over the “exploitation” involved in recruiting models for VIP parties; she says “This is a system of trafficking in women” and thinks it’s a problem that “the girls don’t seem to mind all that much”, indicating that she absolutely Does Not Get the halfway whore concept at all.
…surrogacy opponents…include…social conservatives and Christians, especially Catholics, who either see surrogacy as unnatural and immoral or a gateway for gay parents, and some feminist groups, who see surrogacy as exploitative…Even the ostensibly pro-surrogacy crowd seems to favor making surrogacy more complicated and less accessible…[such] solutions [are billed] as “pro surrogacy” because they don’t outright forbid or criminalize the practice but…create more categories of people who can’t participate and raise financial costs and privacy invasion for those who do…
Researchers have released…the first national report on the sex industry in Canada…based on five studies undertaken in St. John’s, Montréal, Kitchener, Fort McMurray, Calgary, and Victoria…“Many of the people linked to Canada’s sex industry—workers and their intimate partners, managers and clients—have much in common with other Canadians”…The average age of sex workers’ first sale was 26 years old…29 percent of sex workers first sold…sex…before …19…The average sex worker has 10 years of experience…67 percent of sex workers finished high school, and 15 percent have a bachelor’s degree or more…77 percent…identify as women, 17 percent as men, and 6 percent as other genders…Sex buyers purchase a sexual service a median of four times a year…only 17 percent bought sex on the street…
“The bodies of two Tampa teenagers…Angelia Mangum, 19, and Tjhisha Ball, 18, were found…[on a Jacksonville roadside] bound with zip ties and lying on top of one another…both…had been…working there as exotic dancers…” Naturally, the media cares more about recounting their record of a couple of petty offenses than about two young women whom society considered disposable. A fundraiser has been started to assist their families with funeral costs.
No, he didn’t “turn pedophile”; he took this job on purpose to enable and cover up his crimes:
…Gregory Pyle…of…Illinois…was sentenced to 50 years in prison…after confessing to sexually abusing a child and distributing images…online. Pyle was a 10-year veteran of his police department who…worked in a child predator task force…and…used his position…to obstruct the investigation into his actions…
88-year-old grandfather, Edwin Venn, was arrested…for prostitution, along with his john Amanda Pearson, 23. Police had been watching Venn for several months and noticed a peculiar pattern…Mr. Venn stood most weekend nights with cardboard sign on Hollywood Blvd that read: “I’m for sale.” Pearson admitted during her arraignment that when she found the 88-year-old Venn trying to turn tricks she and her friends decided it would be funny to sleep “with an old guy”. Word spread and lots of girls paid Venn for sex. Pearson said he only charged five dollars and gave them lollipops afterward.
Here’s another sex worker on a reality TV show:
Kate McGrew [says sex work] is…”an aspect of my feminism…sex workers…have good strategy. People say it cheapens the experience [of sex]…No, it doesn’t, it makes it more expensive”…
And one who was previously on a show runs for office:
One of the independent candidates for the Clacton by-election is Exeter sex worker Charlotte Rose…[who] previously appeared in a…TV series…called Love For Sale…[with] Rupert Everett and Russell Brand. “My main policy is about sexual freedom…I also want there to be better sexual education in schools”…The former teacher and mother-of-two…was hounded out [of her neighborhood] by locals following media attention sparked by the TV show…
Another case in which the truth is so obscured by exaggeration, dysphemisms, myths and lies that we’ll probably never know what really happened:
A…[Missouri] Judge sentenced 24-year-old Tiffany Piper to eight years in prison for selling two high school girls for sex…managed the [girls’ work]…and placed ads online…[prosecutors claim that] someone was [previously] trafficking Tiffany Piper for sex…[and] said…”At some point she was no longer a victim…because she perpetrated the same crimes that were perpetrated upon her”…[they] can`t say who first trafficked Piper, or who worked above her, because Piper never said…
The narrative simply doesn’t allow the prosecutor to admit that there is no shadowy “pimp” pulling the strings here, so Piper becomes the scapegoat.
Backwards into the Future (TW3 #42)
…in recent months a fierce debate over whether to legalise and regulate the sex industry [in Vietnam] has sprung up online and in the official press…even the National Assembly is due to address the issue at its next session in October…Researchers estimate there are around 200,000 sex workers in Vietnam…”We should legalise prostitution because it is part of human rights. Everybody has the right to enjoy sex,” said sociologist Le Quang Binh…
Given that the Immigrant Council is one of the groups trying to impose the Swedish model on Ireland, I trust you can see the endgame here:
A report…finds that victims of sex trafficking are left vulnerable to further abuse in…[Ireland’s] direct provision centres because they can be easily contacted or intimidated by pimps and traffickers…the Immigrant Council of Ireland said…”traffickers have actually used the asylum system for residency and accommodation while simultaneously trafficking victims”…
“…California Governor Jerry Brown [signed]…legislation which now requires district attorneys to get a court’s permission to use possession of more than one condom as potential evidence [of]…prostitution…” How this will play out in real-world courtrooms:
DA: Your honor, I need permission to use these condoms as evidence, because “sex trafficking”. It’s for the children!
Judge: Granted.
…sex workers…and advocates submitted a report to the United Nations…on human rights violations committed in the U.S. against sex workers…and those profiled as such…Best Practices Policy Project (BPPP), Desiree Alliance and Sex Worker Outreach Project-NYC (SWOP-NYC) [documented] extensive violations of the right to equal protection before the law, the right to be free of cruel and inhuman punishment, and the right to health…Due process violations are also rampant…The report…[calls] on the U.S…to make good on a [2011] commitment…to address discrimination and violence against sex workers…
Another good article attacking the “rape culture” myth:
…Both critics and supporters…note [that]…While the CDC estimates that nearly 2 million adult American women were raped in 2011 and nearly 6.7 million suffered some other form of sexual violence, the NCVS estimate for that year was 238,000 rapes and sexual assaults…[the high numbers result from a loose definition of rape, but by this standard]…the…CDC [found] that women rape men as often as men rape women. The CDC also reports that men account for over a third of those experiencing…“sexual coercion”…defined as being pressured into sexual activity by psychological means: lies or false promises, threats to end a relationship or spread negative gossip, or “making repeated requests” for sex and expressing unhappiness at being turned down…We must either start treating sexual assault as a gender-neutral issue or stop using the CDC’s inflated statistics…
…“This violates the bedrock principle that punishment should not begin until you are convicted,” says Jonathan Simon…[of] Berkeley Law…“It’s the police saying, ‘We’re going to punish you upfront’…This isn’t just a few days in jail. It’s distinctly degrading treatment, public exposure that puts people at risk of long-term internal trauma …it’s the kind of thing that the 8th Amendment…was designed to prevent”…assistant professor Andrea Roth says…“Public humiliation affects a lot of people besides the johns…People say, ‘I saw your dad or husband on Facebook,’ and that can be devastating. Your career can be affected—maybe permanently, given that once something goes up on the Internet, it’s there forever. It can disrupt entire families”…
Of all the semi-whores, none are as pompous as masseuses; they even infect those who write about them:
…Many [massage parlors] are locally owned small businesses staffed by well-trained professionals who provide high-priced services. On the other hand, some are fronts for brothels…California Governor Jerry Brown signed a new bill that acknowledges that the state’s last attempt to regulate the massage industry struck the wrong balance…centralizing power moved massage parlors outside the authority of local governments, which are more likely to know when a business is illegitimate…
Given that most unlicensed massage parlors are Asian-owned, there is a strong whiff of racism in phrases like “locally owned” and “high-priced services”.
…Somaly Mam has spoken out to defend herself for the first time…in the new issue of Marie Claire, Mam tells Abigail Pesta, “I didn’t lie”…she adds that she didn’t mount a legal fight against the claims because “I didn’t need a lawyer…I did nothing wrong. My heart is my lawyer”…
Alan Young…summed up…bill [C36] as “a very confused response to a very clear judgment”…when…asked if the bill could be amended, he was unequivocal: “No.” As a constitutional lawyer, he said, he’d “have a field day” with the bill, given…irreconcilable inconsistencies between the objectives, as laid out in the preamble, and the text of the proposed laws…Young also challenged the assertion that the government had struck the appropriate balance…”How can you even talk about ‘balance’ when you use the word ‘asymmetrical’…I’ve never seen anything in the history of [Canadian] criminal law that sets up asymmetrical prohibitions”…
If George is smart, he’ll call off his protests first:
…A letter to Pastor Bill Dunfee of New Beginnings Ministries and Foxhole North strip club owner Thomas George was sent by city officials asking them to stop the weekly protests of each other’s establishment…the feud is straining local law enforcement and hurting the community…[but] they can’t legally be stopped from protesting…George explained to [reporters] that he…believes it is necessary to draw attention to…harassment by Dunfee and his congregation…
A Tulsa County sheriff’s deputy…accused of sexual assault and indecent exposure resigned…as investigators search for more victims…Gerald Nuckolls…was arrested…[after using drugs as a pretext] to ask [a woman] inappropriate questions and…exposed himself to [her]…Nuckolls reportedly said he had a problem with pretty women…
Ha, you were wrong that straight male whores have no market, they just have to be over 80!
… and have lollipops.
…and work in Hollywood, and charge only $5.
I wonder if they charged Ms Pearson with prostitution too.
He got 5 bucks. She got a lollipop.
Allen Funt is dead, isn’t he?
Anatomy of a Boondoggle, Imaginary Crises:
While I still have issues calling fraud and intent to harm in the context of sex “rape”, it seems that usage is now completely superseded by actual usage that includes almost all reasons to have sex, except the most pure ones. I think we need to face that “rape” is not an useful word with an useful definition anymore.
If a hooker agrees to sex with a client with the intent to rob him, has she raped him?
Interesting question.
The corollary would be the tasteless joke about the young woman trying to deposit a cheque which bounces.
I guess to me the question of rape/sexual assault hinges on empowered prior consent. I don’t think subsequent events can turn consensual sex into rape but revelations of prior intent can certainly raise questions as to whether the consent was truly informed and empowered. But going down that path means that we can never know for certain that any act of intercourse was not rape because some revelation at a later date might recontextualise it.
Let’s face it. Life is rape. I sure didn’t give my consent to be born.
If someone has consented to a glass of wine, but is unaware that the drink contains poison did they consent to be poisoned? Of course not.
So similarly if someone (whether a client or cop or whatever) sets out, with malice aforethought, to violate clearly communicated terms of consent, then he is a rapist.
No but she did consent to the glass of wine and the fact that it’s poisoned doesn’t change that.
I don’t think anyone is arguing that someone who enters into sex with the desire to steal or harm shouldn’t be held responsible for the stealing and harming, but does that also ‘criminalise’ the sexual act?
And what about other hidden motives that may be dishonourable or harmful but not criminal?
What if it’s not only about mutual pleasure but also the desire to dominate or to boast to your friends about it?
Is s/he still a rapist?
What you are missing is that it is at the point of the poison being introduced into the drink that the crime is committed – attempted murder if it fails or actual murder if it succeeds. What criminalises the sexual act is going against a clearly-stated, unmistakable standard of consent (the verbal contract).
Amateurism is not comparable because motivations are mixed, unstated or unclear.
Read my comment again. I didn’t miss it at all. It’s attempted murder all right but it’s not rape in my view.
So lets come back to the real world where communication mix ups are more the norm than the exception and most interaction leading up to sex is with body language and veiled verbal references (“Come up and see me some time”). There is rarely a lawyer at hand to check your verbal contract for you.
Your definition ain’t really all that useful is it?
Amateurism? Are you suggesting rape is usually done by professional rapists?
I think even you must realise you’ve tied yourself into a completely incoherent knot here.
Read my comment again. I didn’t miss it at all. It’s attempted murder all right but it’s not rape in my view.
So in your view it is possible to have sex knowingly against the consent of another person and not commit rape?
So lets come back to the real world where communication mix ups are more the norm than the exception and most interaction leading up to sex is with body language and veiled verbal references (“Come up and see me some time”). There is rarely a lawyer at hand to check your verbal contract for you.
Your definition ain’t really all that useful is it?
I am talking about sex professionals where the verbal contract most certainly does exist.
Amateurism? Are you suggesting rape is usually done by professional rapists?
Amateurism = amateurs = non-sex workers. Bars, nightclubs and so on. An environment low on ethics.
I think even you must realise you’ve tied yourself into a completely incoherent knot here.
My position is perfectly consistent. Do not violate a 100% clear refusal.
I don’t know. Like any sex (‘cept wanking), rape is something that happens between at least two people so communication will never be perfect.
‘Consent’ is a pretty fuzzy word when you get down to it and its status could change multiple times during a single sex act. Julian Assange provides a case in point. Sometimes it takes days for even the victim to realise she’s been raped.
So sex workers are the only ones with pure alternative motives for sex? Well that’s a viewpoint you don’t hear every day.
I daresay multiple motives are behind most, if not all, sexual activity. Some of them are hidden – even from the person who has them – and some of them are base, exploitative, objectifying and potentially harmful. That doesn’t make it rape though. At least not necessarily.
If a woman has sex with me with the hidden agenda of drawing me into a long term relationship I don’t want should I be crying rape? If I’ve deduced that agenda but still go ahead with no intention of honoring it have I raped her too?
Aye, aye captain.
Now if I can just find anything in this world that’s 100% clear.
A wise man named Johnny Rotten once said no-one is innocent.
But if I learned anything from activism it’s that we’re all offenders and we’re all innocent victims. Those who believe in purity more so than most.
I once wrote a poem that tries to capture some of the confusion I have encountered in my conversations with rapists – mostly imprisoned ones.
Trigger warning: Don’t read it if you are traumatised by truly lousy poetry.
I’m not a poetry expert by any stretch of the imagination – but I didn’t find it bad.
What I take from that mostly is that maybe these guys are looking at women ONLY as objects of sexual gratification.
Which I don’t understand that attitude … you can go home and watch porn and wank off and get sexual gratification. I like the way I view sex … sex isn’t just the physical act, it’s the process of interacting with another human being. You have to appreciate what’s in her head also. I don’t want to just walk away and have the girl say … “Well, he was good.” I want to her to say … “Shit that dude got in my head and it was wonderful!”
To do that … you just can’t pick a girl up in a bar and go for the touchdown that night – unless she makes it clear she wants you to score. That used to happen occasionally – a girl would tell me to come home with her. Or she would have some “inventive” excuse like … “I want you to go to the swap meet with me tomorrow morning … you should stay with me tonight!” Okay, well then that is a signal that she wants you to do your worst – so go ahead.
But other times … just taking her home, or back to her hotel and giving her a deep kiss and walking away is A LOT better. Especially when she’s expecting you to make a “go” at her. Just leave her waiting … and suspend that moment for days if you can. She knows it’s gonna come … but now you’re being unpredictable … she doesn’t know when you’re going to make your move or what’s going to trigger it. A lot of girls at that point – will just waive the surrender flag and say … “take me”. I never really liked those girls as much as the ones that let it play out … and let the suspense build. When it finally comes – IT’S WONDERFUL. I have seen girls just melt as soon you make the move on them after drawing it out like this. There’s one point when your “pass” becomes unmistakable to her and you can see it her eyes and hear it in her breathing and it’s like … “yeah! Boy!” And it’s the BEST THING about a woman in the whole entire world. And I think that’s because she knows you by that point … and she WANTS you at that point. It’s not just something that she’s doing because she just met you and thinks you expect it from her.
This is NOT “beta male” activity … on the contrary, it’s quite “alpha”. You feed off her sexual energy and you bounce it back at her until the moment is right.
You miss ALL OF THAT, and can get into a lot of trouble – by simply looking at women as a “hole”. Even with hookers – I always tried to work up a little bit of that.
Me neither. I wasn’t interested in poems at all until two years ago when they started pissing out of me. Unless you count dirty limericks (you seen Asimov’s limerick books?).
I’ve got no idea whether my poems are good or not really. I just like taking the piss out of the notion of trigger warnings.
My experiences when I was part of a group working on responses to rape that excluded the criminal justice system messed up a lot of my views on sexual assault and rape and I’ve never really been able to sort them out since.
Particularly confusing were the cases of rape involving former partners in which the rapist thought he had implicit consent based on the prior relationship, at least initially. In one case the rapist told me that when he finally realised his former partner didn’t want sex it became imperative for him to continue until she did because otherwise it would have been rape. Needless to say things didn’t work out the way he’d hoped.
The whole thing forced me to re-evaluate my own sexual history and since then I’ve never been certain that I’m not a rapist – even though the question had never occurred to me before.
What it all really taught me is that even in our most intimate relationships it can be pretty astounding at how thoroughly we fail to communicate.
Bro, “rape” is pretty cut and dry. Did you FORCE the girl?
I’m trying to figure out what you mean above by “other motives” that are less than honorable. Do you mean … I might be a rapist if I TELL a girl in a bar that I am a brain surgeon (which would be a lie) – simply to get her to have sex with me?
That’s not rape.
This happened to me one time … I met a girl in Hawaii from the mainland and thought she was pretty cool. But about five minutes into our first conversation she starting bad-mouthing military guys and threw out every asinine “stereotype” of them I have ever heard. Well, one of those stereotypes was … “Military guys only want one thing.”
I was stunned … fuck she didn’t even realize I was in the military? I had tourists come up to me all the time and say … “Hey are you a submariner?” And I’d say … “how do you know?” And they’d say … “well you’re white … not “local” … you have short hair and NO tan at all!”
So this girl was a Sailor-hating idiot.
Heh … so I resolved I would have that witch THAT night! Totally made up an occupation … and a life story. And I made that night the dirtiest I could and we did things that turn me OFF – but I did them with her anyway because I thought they were degrading to her. I’m just being honest here. Next morning I threw on my pants and told her I was going to work on “my submarine”. You should have seen the look on her face.
I didn’t hurt her. I didn’t force her. It got rough, well as rough as I can make it and still stay hard – I have some kind of “switch” in my fucking head and if I think I’m really hurting a girl then the unit shuts down – which is why I could never rape a girl. But .. she consented to every bit of it.
You can’t say that it was wrong for me to lie to her about who I was without also saying that it’s wrong for a chick to use sex just to attract a guy with money.
I’m not especially proud of that moment … but I never did anything like that ever again. Of course – I’ve never met anyone else who was as closed-minded as this chick – while also being stunningly stupid.
Bottom line – rape involves FORCE or COERSION.
“Rape involves FORCE or COERSION.”
Well, I agree to that definition. And with it, “rape” is indeed an useful word to have and quite clear.
But there are these people that want it to include absolutely everything they do not like in connection with sex. I am waiting for people to call it “rape” if somebody asks you to have sex with them and you refuse. After all, you hurt their feelings. That must surely be rape?
Nope. I was trying to point out that’s the sort of conclusion gumdeo’s approach implies though. It’s called reductio ad absurdum.
Ditto. I can’t get it on with girls who want pain. I’ve run across a surprising number of them too.
That’s only going to work if you redefine ‘force’ and ‘coercion’ especially for rape. We’ve already messed up ‘consent’ that way so I’d rather not trash even more of the English language.
A woman walks into a bar and drinks ’til she passes out. A bunch of guys carry her out the back and go through her one after the other. (And no Celos, this is not a contrived scenario. It’s so imbedded in Australian culture there’s even a slang term for the victim. “Dead ant”.)
Force? No more than carrying her across the threshold on her honeymoon.
Coercion? How can you coerce someone who is dead to the world?
That’s why the whole question of rape has to hinge on consent. But consent – unlike force and more so than coercion – is something that really happens in people’s heads. The devil lies in communication of consent and that’s a problem that leads to a heck of a lot of rapes. It’s also why Swedish men joke that if you haven’t got a signed contract detailing every aspect of the proposed sexual act you’re a rapist.
What about you take the scenario I just described and add the point that the same thing’s been happening with the same woman in the same bar every Friday night for months and she’s never complained.
Is it still rape?
And what about all the people who like a bit of force and coercion in their sexual relationships (and it’s not just rapists). Are you going to criminalise them to keep your definition?
See how messy the whole thing is?
One thing you can be pretty sure of is that any one sentence definitions of rape you care to come up with just aren’t going to work in the real world.
The truth is that ‘no’ doesn’t always mean no and not saying ‘no’ doesn’t always mean yes.
Well said. And I’d even go a step farther: any definition of it, even much longer than one sentence, won’t always work in the real world. I think the problem is that the feminists have succeeded in inflating the word “rape”, which should be semantically similar to the word “killing” (in that it describes a violation with many degrees, conditions and nuances), into a word with the semantic weight of “murder” and, in the minds of many, with the semantic weight of “first-degree premeditated murder”. That’s why feminists hate when I write about rape; despite having experienced it myself on several occasions, I’m not willing to assign drunk sex and miscommunications anywhere near the severity of violation as aggravated rape, nor to assign any form of rape the same rank as murder.
I also think that’s why guys get so bent when I say that having sex with a whore to arrest her, or cheating out of her fee, is a form of rape; what I mean is something similar to, “he drove a car too fast through a neighborhood and killed a kid, and we need to recognize that this is wrong and there should be some social or legal penalty if he’s found guilty at a fair trial”; but what guys hear is the neofeminist “he committed cold-blooded murder and should be executed after a kangaroo court in which his guilt is presumed and he’s barely allowed any reasonable semblance of a defense.” Because that’s what neofeminists have turned rape into, but that’s not what it intrinsically is, nor should it be.
Unless you have an infinite number of monkeys banging away on infinite typewriters at it for an infinite time maybe ;).
Goddamned humans. They insist on being more complex than even the fattest law books.
No, I don’t have a problem if the girl WANTS a bit of pain. I’m talking about CAUSING pain that she doesn’t want. What I’m talking about is I can’t “initiate” unless I get a signal from her to go ahead – and it CAN even be a subtle signal. But if I slap a girl in the face suddenly just … “because” … with no signal from her that’s it’s okay (who I just met) … and she cries … that’s it … kaput.
I have had girlfriends with rape fantasies – I just didn’t fulfill them because it’s just not in my nature to force myself and … I’ve also been a bit afraid that if I did it once … then some “dark” portion residing in me might get off on it – and want to do it again. In other words, I might have fantasies about “raping”. For those girls though – I had no problem tying them up or even spanking them if that is what they wanted.
It’s very confusing but I like myself the way I am now.
Since you’re so frank about your sexual experiences here krulac, I guess I can grit my teeth and give you a real example of what I’m talking about – even though I hate doing that sort thing.
I used to have this thing where in the early morning an hour or so before I’d normally wake up I’d get hard while having a sexual dream and start screwing whoever was in bed with me without initially waking up.
Usually it was no problem and my partner would say things like “What a lovely way to wake up” or something but one time I woke up to my girlfriend punching at me yelling for me to keep my dick to myself. We’d been fighting and she didn’t want me to touch her. Also I’d been dreaming about a former girlfriend and may have said the wrong name.
I sexually penetrated her without consent when she didn’t want sex and was, at first, in no state to resist.
Did I rape her?
I’m a pretty big guy with type one bipolar and used to get around in punk regalia with an attitude to match. There were occasions where I just don’t know if the girl consented to sex because she wanted it or because she was scared of what might happen if she refused.
Am I a possible rapist?
During one of my lectures on sex offending a female student said that if you want to know if it’s rape you should imagine someone else is doing it to your daughter, sister, girlfriend or mother. One of the guys goes “Great. Now I have to imagine they’re all my Mum. There goes my sex life”.
Dude … that’s not rape … the girl was in YOUR bed (or you were in hers – with her knowledge). You obviously had a relationship with her. Shit happens. I would be less concerned about YOUR bi-polarism than I would be with HERS in this case. I’ve done the same thing before – with girlfriends. They get mad at you – and they cut you off for a few days. It’s gotta end … so you say something like … “I apologize … now bend the fuck over!” She protests a little … but it all goes as planned. 😀
Was one time I seduced a girl for SIX HOURS … we started out at a graveyard north of Memphis (one of the old ones with people buried there from the early 1800’s). I love those places – she did too. We took a bottle of wine as we walked through it. Got back to her place, and it all got really serious. But it took a long time because we were talking while we were necking – and it was sexy talk – and I just didn’t feel in a rush. At one point she says … “I want you inside me” … exact words … and I love those words. I said … “say that again, I didn’t quite hear that.” And she said it again.
Go for the goal … whoops! Just that quick, she had second thoughts. I said … “is something wrong?” And she says … “I’m scared”. I think I said something like … “It’s not that big – seriously – it’ll be okay.” And she said … “no it’s just not right”.
Well … we were both married and at the moment of truth she “opted out”. I could have forced the issue – maybe she even wanted me to do that. But that’s not who I am … so I said … “It’s okay” and we both “stood down” from there. But that would have been our first time together – and I think it’s more important to make sure the communication is clear for the first time with a girl. After that – you can get a little inventive because you know each other better
I think a lot of your last two comments are very insightful krulac. Yet again you’ve impressed me with your redneck wisdom ;).
But as well as bipolar I’m aspie and of the pretty firm opinion that neurotypicals are constantly deluding themselves when they imagine how well they know each other. Being able to predict someone’s behaviour to some degree doesn’t even mean you know what was going on in their head last night much less tomorrow night. You might be able to correctly judge that someone won’t cry rape if you behave in a certain way but that doesn’t mean she’s not thinking it.
I don’t think you could really call me a redneck. I don’t own any camouflage clothing other than one pair of Marine MARPAT’s that I would use to go hunting … if I ever chose to “hunt”. That’s another thing … I don’t really hunt. I don’t fish much either. I don’t watch NASCAR … don’t much watch football. I have never “tailgated”. My bodyfat is under 17%. I don’t own any cowboy boots, or a cowboy hat … and I never wear a ballcap. I do own a truck … but it’s a HONDA … and doesn’t count for redneck bonafides.
It’s a very nice truck, but definitely not Redneckish.
I’m trading it in on a 370z NISMO!! I will prolly be dead within the year! 😀
Oh, BTW, when I mentioned I was bipolar it wasn’t because I question my own judgement – though I do – it was to emphasise the position some of my one-off sexual partners have found themselves in when they realise they’ve gone home with a guy who may not be playing with a full deck.
Why would you tell them that you are bi-polar right away?
Honestly, and this is one reason I don’t dig psychology … is because it assigns all these “names” to certain, otherwise “normal” human conditions – and with the labeling comes the stigma.
What was “bi-polar” in the 1600’s? Did they even use the word back then or know what it was? I doubt it. People just worked with it.
I dated one girl that I’m sure was “bi-polar” … but I never thought of her that way. I just thought of her as a really cool chick who got depressed every now and then, or who was overly excited sometimes. Flaws make people “human”. Fuck I hope I have a few flaws … though I can’t imagine what they’d be! 😛
“Flaws” … are sexy. Anytime a girl trusted me enough to open up and show me her “flaws” … excited me to no end. I would imagine that many women feel the same way about men who open up and reveal that part of them.
Shit … I’m on a roll today. Reading my shit what I writ … I should write an advice column for men or something! 😛
Yeah, you are.
You sure you’re not bipolar? 😉
I didn’t tell ’em but it wasn’t hard for them to work out something was up.
When I was hypomanic I was a very prolific and pretty successful pick-up artist. If I didn’t have a full time sexual partner to hand I’d be off to a punk rock concert to mosh myself senseless and bring home any attractive, energetic seeming girl I managed to latch onto.
My behaviour and demeanor would have seemed pretty normal at the gig, but by the time we’re sitting in the kitchen drinking coffee and I’m still like that a lot of them had twigged. Probably more of them assumed I was a speed freak who’d overdone it than a certified psychotic but either can be pretty scary. Most of them probably weren’t fussed or even found it exciting, but I’d be surprised if some of them didn’t find it a bit too exciting. The ones who sneaked off while I was in the toilet or when they thought I was asleep for instance. Of course some of them might just have been disappointed I didn’t have a big stash of speed or coke to share.
We’re on exactly the same page here dude. And I’ve got a frigging degree in it.
What’s worse is they can force you to get treatment for something that’s OK by you then pump you full of toxic shit that fucks you up bigtime without even curing the ‘disease’ they claim you have. Hell, they can’t even diagnose it in a consistent manner. Go to five different shrinks and you can come home with five different labels. It ain’t medicine and it definitely ain’t science. Even as voodoo it’s pretty third rate. I bet Santeria helps upset people a lot more than psychiatry ever did. And look at all the money gets pissed into it.
The whole thing’s a medical mess and a human rights disaster area. No wonder the Soviets were so into it.
I refuse to call any woman a “rapist” because rape is a penetrative act. If she uses a broomstick on the guy’s ass … then okay … maybe.
But otherwise, a woman doesn’t have the ability to “rape” a man.
We have to be sure to take out the capuchin monkeys first though.
There’s no need to feel bad about it, they’re incredibly backwards.
To them it’s the newest profession.
Probably not a good idea to hold up a condom in court and say “It’s for the children”.
Or visa versa.
Something tells me that Ashley Mears probably understands the “Halfway Whore” syndrome actually too well, and thinks ANYBODY on the “prostitution spectrum” is trafficked, whether it be attractive waitresses at Hooters, Hollywood actresses, or even the beautiful women who become wives or mistresses or rich men.
I’m more concerned with the women on the spectrum, who OUGHT to see what they have in common with each other and stick together. Instead, most of them—even many bone fide sex workers—will sputter garbage like “Well, at least I’m not a whore, like so-and-so!”
So carrying more than one franger makes you a sex trafficker. Reminds me of that rule that more than three shakes is a wank.
Regarding the California law, I went on a walking tour of local massage parlors in my California hometown, perusing both legit and “non-legit” operations—I presume folks here know why I use quotes: because the language I use gets the point across while also being prejudiced.
Here’s what I found:
Overall I had about 18 interactions. Three were whom I would call bodyworkers, all white–one is a Rolfer and her work is really bad. A guy does neuromuscular work, and I saw him perhaps three times until I remembered I just don’t do pain in bodywork, either getting or giving (I’m trained in advanced hands-on bodywork). A third, another guy, was working at a Massage Envy franchise and was a Hellerworker–he was pretty bad, too.
So of interest for this excellent site are the 15 or so interactions where I received work from Asian women. It is incorrectly presumed the locations I went to all do illicit massage, but that is not true: a large majority, 80% of them here in Our Town, do such.
The methodology was to completely undress and first lie face down with a towel across my buttocks no matter the instructions, but that was because most of the time the accent was difficult to understand. Propositions would occur after I turned over onto my back. I refused them all.
Good massage therapists will employ excellent towel work to keep private areas covered, but the towel work by all the Asian practitioners was sloppy in that respect—I was exposed a number of times.
Striking was that the massage handwork was similar amongst all the Asian practitioners— a kneading, pushing kind, lacking long soft effleurage strokes despite the use of oil to facilitate such. Also, their hands, even when no proposition was offered, slid close to private areas.
The assessment of the city planning department was that all you needed to do to find the illicit outlets was go to the ones with neon lights. Not so—there’s also one legit place with neon lights and its female owner notes such with a grin of chagrin. And one of the places with lights, where I for sure thought I was going to get a proposition–the woman wore a short one-piece dress with a top that barely covered her breasts and which she needed to keep pulling up–did exactly what I asked for: a half-hour massage for $40, no proposition.
At another place the practitioner was older–perhaps 40 or so, and not pretty and dressed in trousers and a sweatshirt to the neck. For almost all the session it was a regular massage in a bright room and I thought it was going end as such—there was a sign on the wall next to the door which said “All unlawful activities are not allowed in this establishment”–and only at the end did she run her hand across my pubis and surprise me with the proposition of a happy ending.
Folks in my town are as upset over the downtown massage parlors as they are over the face of poverty populating the downtown streets, people who are called “homeless” even though a lot of them who “look homeless” are indeed actually housed. There’s just no accounting for prejudice.
And one reason for the prejudice concerning illicit massage parlors is that there is the belief that there is trafficking going on. And I wouldn’t know how to identify such except through the circumstantial evidence I saw of habitation–a room with a bed and a kitchen. I’ve heard claims of a new practitioner at each of those sites each week, and other than sitting about waiting to see the women outside the parlor and how they are moved and where, I cannot know, but an article in a nearby city newspaper stated that if there was evidence of habitation in the parlor then that meant there was trafficking.
It’s indeed possible that the practitioners go to one place for a night or a week and then are moved elsewhere. One woman told me she was 24 years old and had been in the States for just two weeks, but she looked just fine—pretty, calm, with make-up applied very well and no sign of stress. Another practitioner was quite sad and very well dressed as if she were going out for a classy evening—she told me that business was down. 13 of the Asian practitioners were alone at their site and had to stop their work in order to answer the door. Their prices were competitive all across town.
On the bright side, there are a fair amount of women in this county who are excellent–and I do mean excellent—massage therapists who do massage out of their home or a studio, or they visit someone. They do not concern the local municipality. But they exemplify a lot of what Maggie and everyone here writes about in terms of being very professional, very good, and very fulfilling.