Innocent people should not be trapped for engaging in their legal right to ask to have sex in private with another adult. – Ezekiel Edwards
It isn’t often we hear anything credible about sex work in strict Muslim countries, which are among the few places in the world more oppressive of sex workers than the United States, but this one seems both realistic and relatively non-judgmental:
…In Yemen, sex work is punishable by stiff prison sentences of up to three years…women earn 50,000 to 60,000 riyals [$230-$280] per client…Wealthy Gulf playboys are known to drop 100,000 riyals [$470] or more per woman…[but women] picked up at a restaurant or club…earn [only] 10,000 [to] 15,000 riyals ($47-$70). Condoms are standard…testing for sexually transmitted diseases is less common but not rare…Because of the illicit nature of the work, sex workers have virtually no protections against abuse. It is not uncommon for men to refuse to pay. Sometimes, a woman will meet a client, only to discover his three friends have accompanied him…
The reporter’s source is a Somali woman working in Yemen who, like so many of us, has been in and out of sex work for much of her life.
Updates
At least British juries recognize that a prostitute can be raped: “Arturas Vasilivas attacked the girl…on October 13 last year…Prosecutor Mary Loram…[said] ‘He clearly viewed her as an object with which he could do as he pleased. She was absolutely terrified’…” He was convicted after only 3½ hours of deliberation and will be sentenced next month. In the United States, however, the rapist usually has to be shockingly violent to ensure conviction:
A limo driver faces up to 14 years in prison…[for] running down a teenage prostitute…Adekunkle Adefeyinti, 42, of Chicago, [was convicted] of two counts of aggravated battery…[for injuring] the 16-year-old girl while fleeing in his Hummer to avoid payment…part of her scalp [was] ripped off and [she suffered] facial nerve damage…
Of course, criminalization also allows whores to cheat clients as well:
…Ernesto S. Tapang, 42, and Shuzhen Santos both have been charged with misdemeanor prostitution…Tapang…paid Santos $120 for an hour of sex…[but] twenty minutes later she allegedly told him…it was over and…refused to give [him] a refund so he flagged down a patrol car and reported her to police…
It’s always a pleasure when people who have never done sex work get it:
Beyond the simplistic dichotomies within western feminism on the nature of sex work there is a complex picture in which many women take a pragmatic approach, negotiating with their sexuality an income while withstanding the “occupational hazard” of rampant violence, says Sehin Teferra. In Ethiopian cities…many young women become sex workers having failed to make ends meet by waiting tables or working as house-help, or [after] personal hardship such as an unplanned birth…[or running] away from home…Nearly all the women [Teferra] spoke to had faced violence at some point…[but] did not portray themselves as victims, and neither were they presented as victims by the men…Despite the low stature of women in Ethiopia in general, sex workers [including casual ones who do not identify as such] are recognized as making good money…[so] many couples and families [depend] on a young woman who sells sex. Many male partners of sex workers expressed frustration that as unskilled labour, they cannot find work that pays as well, and as regularly, as their partners’ sex work…while many sex workers…express a desire to leave their line of work, others recognize that [it] has allowed them to provide for themselves and their families…
Until I read this thorough and sensible article, I hadn’t realized that both major American presidential candidates this year are descended from polygamists (and much more recently in Obama’s Kenyan family than in Romney’s Mormon one). But that fact has not escaped the notice of those fighting for the right to live in whatever consensual arrangement suits them, who also point out that banning a practice because a minority abuse it is tyranny. This should obviously sound familiar, but the similarities don’t stop there; Romney has stated, “I can’t imagine anything more awful than polygamy,” which is exactly the same sort of absurdly-exaggerated denunciation politicians usually emit when talking about sex work.
Y’all may discuss this in the comments as you wish; please just keep it factual and avoid “mutilation” hyperbole and unverifiable claims about sensitivity:
A 20-year decline in male circumcision has cost the country $2 billion in medical costs that could have been prevented, Johns Hopkins researchers say in a [new] study…boys who are not circumcised are more prone to sexually transmitted diseases and other [costly] health problems over a lifetime…”The economic evidence is backing up what we already know medically,” said Dr. Aaron Tobian…about 55 percent of the 2 million baby boys born each year are circumcised, compared with a peak of 79 percent in the 1970s and 1980s…Studies have long shown that when babies are not circumcised…bacteria and viruses can get trapped in the extra layers of skin left on the penis…circumcision reduces the number of infant urinary tract infections. Men who are uncircumcised are more at-risk for cancer-causing HPV, HIV, herpes, bacterial vaginitis and other sexually transmitted diseases…
As I’ve stated many times, any artificial bottleneck in the legality of sex work (such as licensing, venue restrictions or immigration controls) inevitably creates problems in the restricted sector. This excellent article by Christian Vega explains the problems Asian sex workers face in the legalized system in Victoria.
Considering the progress of Swedish Rot in Ireland, it should come as no surprise that Northern Ireland has contracted the disease as well:
…the Human Trafficking and Exploitation Bill…aims to enhance services for victims as well as making it an offence to pay for sexual services from a prostitute…Lord Morrow said…”In Sweden, there’s a very clear message of zero tolerance for the purchase of sex that has had a clear impact on trafficking”…
His Lordship is correct: it has made trafficking worse.
If these women were vulnerable to arrest for prostitution, would this have turned out the same way?
The six-year-old daughter of a sex worker, who was allegedly being tortured by her mother and her partner for the past few months, was rescued by other sex workers…[who heard her] yelling out in pain…and…took her to Medical College and Hospital Calcutta for treatment…The little girl, who looked relieved, kept saying that she did not want to return to her mother…”If the girl meets this kind of treatment from her own mother, she would surely become a victim of circumstances soon…we want the girl to stay at a safer place,” said a member of DMSC.
“Tampa Police have arrested nearly 20 women at area strip clubs as part of a crackdown ahead of the Republican National Convention…Tampa Police said they are investigating prostitution and human sex trafficking of minors based on tips that prostitutes may be coming to Tampa to work in adult establishments during the convention.” Because if Telisia Espinosa says pimped, trafficked streetwalkers work out of strip clubs, that’s good enough for them.
Maybe if this sort of thing keeps happening, the ACLU will get off its collective arse and actually start challenging these laws:
The South Carolina chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union is accusing the Greenville County Sheriff’s Office [of] routinely making unlawful arrests of women they suspect of being prostitutes and men who have sex with men, even though they haven’t broken any laws. The ACLU says it sent a letter [outlining] “several incidents in which undercover officers approached people parked in their cars, sitting on their own porches or walking down the street and asked suspects to engage in illegal sexual activity, including prostitution and having sex in a public place. The individuals either declined or offered to engage in lawful private sexual contact, but were arrested anyway”…
Metaupdates
For Those Who Think Legalization is a Good Idea in August Updates (Part One)
It looks like the Indian Supreme Court is starting to back down from its year-old decision to move toward decriminalization:
A year after trying to provide a dignified life to sex workers, the Supreme Court on Thursday said its orders should not be construed as an encouragement to prostitution…Justice [Gyan Sudha] Mishra said, “I prefer to add…sex workers have a right to live with dignity but the collective endeavour must be on part of the sex workers to give up the trade in case they are given alternate platform”…Justice [Altamas] Kabir said: “It is all very good for your (government’s) policy to say prevent prostitution but will you provide to fill their stomach. Even a prostitute has a right to live with dignity”…
The other judges waffled even more, and one claimed he was only talking about “sex trafficking” victims. Well, at least they rejected the government’s attempt to remove DMSC from the advisory panel.
A Tale That Grew in the Telling in October Updates (Part Three)
A news release of the Commission on Filipinos Overseas (CFO), said…[a human trafficking] hotline…established a year and a half ago…”has received 11,000 calls from local and overseas sources, with…165 case calls, of which 52 are reportedly victims of human trafficking”…the CFO said “many victims still do not file charges against their recruiters.”
Would that be “many” more than the 11,000 callers, the 165 operators opened files on, the 52 staff represent as real or the much smaller, undisclosed number which actually turn out to be cases of victimization?
An Example To the West in TW3 (#14)
Here’s another article by Matthias Lehmann on sex work in South Korea, this one in response to an article written by a woman who seems to believe that volunteering at a woman’s shelter for a few months makes her a “sex trafficking” expert. It includes an excerpt from this excellent letter (dated last September) to “human trafficking ambassador” Luis CdeBaca from Ann Jordan and other respected academics:
“…[W]e are concerned that the Obama Administration has produced a document that asserts as matters of proven fact a number of statements, which…are unsupported or unproven by valid research methods and data…the document is illogical, misleading and therefore potentially damaging to on-going efforts globally to prevent trafficking and protect the rights of trafficked persons…these assumptions are not proven in any empirically meaningful way, and [we] believe that they only serve to deflect attention away from the structures and actors that in fact lead to trafficking of women, men and children. The proposals and statements in the document threaten to divert precious resources from protecting victims of trafficking who urgently need help into a politically contested and futile anti-prostitution campaign…”
Interestingly, Lehmann also compares the “anti-trafficking” campaigns in South Korea with California’s Proposition 35, about which I wrote last week.
Barcelona’s ill-considered and Swedish-flavored campaign to drive vulnerable women into poverty continues:
…[As of ] 17th August, street prostitution will be totally banned in Barcelona…the…ban will persecute both prostitutes and clients; although the later will have to pay significantly higher fines. Clients might be fined between €1,000 and €3,000…[while] prostitutes will…[be fined] €100 [to] €750, depending on the situation…
This Week in 2011
I examined a claim that porn causes terrorism, described my “girls’ night out” with two other whore activists, discussed attempts to restrict adult behavior under the excuse of “protecting children”, expressed my opinion on a conflict between two activists, published the tale of an experiment in sexual robotics, looked at several examples of sex work scams and criticized the demonization of “sexting”.
This Week in 2010
What happens when an escort already knows her client personally or because he’s famous? How should clients treat hookers, and what sorts of presents do they give in addition to fees? What kinds of tricks do unscrupulous whores use? What do we think about people who try to “rescue” us? And what does one do with a talking painting?
I’m really unsurprised (sickened, but not surprised) at the arrest of strippers in Tampa prior to the RNC.
January, 27th, 2009: Enforcement Of 6-Foot Rule Won’t Increase For Super Bowl
And there’s this more recent article: Tampa strip-club king Joe Redner: RNC not great for business
Going to Tampa’s strip clubs used to be my favorite thing to do, but when I saw the writing on the wall (the Super Bowl article points out that the politicians wanted to shut down all the strip clubs, despite their importance to Tampa’s economy), I started seeing escorts instead. Incidentally, it turns out I was incorrect, the anti-strip club Jihad kind of fizzled out, but it did create a lot of human misery during the period when the politicians were serious about it, so they can be proud of that.
I had seen escorts previously, and been to Tampa area “lingerie modeling shops” and “body rub salons,” in the Red Light District. (I haven’t done that lately, Tampa would be a bit of a drive for me anyway, so I have no idea if the Tampa Red Light district is still as thriving and obvious as it was when I lived there. )
However, I started going to strip clubs instead because I was still skittish about ending up in a squad car. Then the police did some grandstanding public crackdowns on strip clubs, and the Tampa City Council and mayor decided to start harassing the clubs. Now, I had never been in a club that was raided, but I figured, “The only reason I’m doing this rather than seeing a prostitute is to avoid contact with the police. If police are going to be raiding strip clubs, then that distinction is no longer valid.”
Well, I figured if police harassment was going to be part of the deal no matter what, why go halfway?
From those of us who love more than 1 person at a time: ###*** you Romney. What he said is as disgusting as the ###*** about those who choose monogamy, are happy and don’t pressure others to live the same way. I’m sick of the lies, stereotypes and negative (never positive) blanket statements about BOTH groups. It’s sad and disgusting how Romney doesn’t acknowledge how his birth came out of a polygamy situation.
Denouncing polygamy is acknowledging it. Given his religion and ancestry, Romney inevitably gets asked about polygamy. If he said he was okay with it, he’d lose the election, because only 11% of Americans polled consider polygamy “morally acceptable”. The same percentage thinks the US should “go Communist”.
He’s pandering to get elected, sure, but that isn’t particularly news.
Politicians are supposed to be good at convincing people to support the better choice. You know: leadership. I don’t see much to convince me that Romney has much of that, and Obama hasn’t go a whole lot of it. More than Romney, but that’s a pretty low bar.
Circumcision; you could describe it as a treatment in search of a disease. It was popular from mid-Victorian times as prophylaxis against masturbation, and during WW1 as a prophylaxis against syphilis. It was also seen, here in the UK, as a mark of higher class — it’s still done in the Royal family. But here it gradually fell from favour from the mid 20th century, and unless there are distinct medical indications, is rarely performed (barring religious grounds). The arguments here are that the complications outweigh the benefits. Of course, the surgeon doesn’t get a fee for it, unlike in the US.
More than most of you might want to know about circumcision:
http://www.amazon.com/Circumcision-History-Worlds-Controversial-Surgery/dp/0465026532/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1345901393&sr=1-1&keywords=circumcision
Just read the Wikipedia article on the procedure – in spite of the efforts of the anti-circumcision hystericals – it’s remained fairly well balanced due to some deligent editors who’ve kept political messages out of it.
The drive AGAINST circumcision is driven entirely by neo anti-semitism which is rife across Europe.
And besides – we’ll all be Muslim soon – and I can convert painlessly whilst you cannot! 😀
“The drive AGAINST circumcision is driven entirely by neo anti-semitism”
In the words of James Webb: bullshit.
It’s no more bullshit than any of the other assertions made by the anti-circumcision fanatics. Wild “facts” such as reduced sensitivity (which could never be proven). Claims of “mutilation” for removing less than a dime’s size of skin from an infant’s penis. Accusing parents of abuse …
So what else could be behind this? Why does anyone care? Seriously? If a woman has a right to an abortion – and you support that – why then do you vehemently contest her right to circumcise her infant son?
You guys don’t even make an exception for religion – in other words, you believe the Jews should be FORCED to give up this harmless practice simply because you are too intolerant to permit them to live their lives according to their own custom.
I note that the nations most vehemently opposed to circumcision come from the Scandinavian nations (Norway, Sweden, etc) – and I also KNOW those countries are rife with anti-Semitism.
I’m just wondering here – since you’re opposed to circumcision – would you insist that Jews give up the practice? Yes or No?
I’m also wondering why YOU CARE what I DO with regards to MY son? What gives you the right to tell me I can’t circumcise him when my wife and I have decided upon that ourselves?
As you ponder you answers to these questions – please reflect on the logic that Maggie often uses regarding prohibitionist laws and the control freaks who push them – and ask yourself if you, yourself – aren’t being a control freak in this instance.
The burden of proof is on the pro side to show a significant benefit.
Religion doesn’t count. Christian Scientists aren’t allowed to passively pray for their child’s appendicitis to be cured, but an active practice by Jews is allowed? Most Jews aren’t even Orthodox, and they ignore or alter many significant doctrines, so circumcision is little more than a bad habit.
And do you really believe you can do anything to your child just because you could have aborted it? Forehead swastika tattoo? Sell its organs? Put it between two slices of bread and eat it?
LOL – no it isn’t. The burden of proof is on the prohibitionists – who MUST SHOW that the practice is damaging enough to engage government to prohibit it. You haven’t shown that. Further – the “anti” side is VERY inconsistent since most of them are pro-choice and look utterly ridiculous for saying that circumcision is somehow more harmful to a child than abortion is!
I taught my son to ride a motorcycle and use firearms – many would consider me a bad parent but I say he needs those skills. You may disagree – and say that I can’t “prove” it’s beneficial for him to have these skills – but that doesn’t then PROVE your right to interfere in MY life!
Nice strawman – hyperbole inserted for the death blow! Classy.
So you speak for the Jews? “Bahhhh … they’ll not be bothered … it’s just a habit for them anyway … throw a few of them in jail and the rest will get the message quick!”
Do you favor jail time for a woman who has her son circumcised in violation of the law once you’ve “criminalized” circumcision? yes or no?
Also – this IS an attack on Jewry … and religion in general … and especially coming from Europeans. Only 1 in 10 boys are circumcised in Europe today – and those are done almost exclusively for religious reasons. This is a CLEAR attack on religion and religious identification and especially Judaism.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/24/europe-goes-after-circumcision.html
Europeans either don’t have the balls to go after the muslims who are also practicing circumcision – or they have a particular hard on for Jews …
People don’t understand – if you take these guy’s rights away with prohibitionist laws – they’ll use the system to take yours. It’s a pendulum and it swings both ways. The only way to “win” at prohibitionism is to NOT play the game. This realization is what made me finally become Pro-Choice, even though abortion is fairly abhorrent to me personally.
Not so fast – if Africa they’re attempting to stem the tide of HIV by encouraging ADULT African men to get circumcised. In fact … since so many have refused (which is understandable) … the U.S. has come to their rescue with a million-dollar program to teach uncircumcised men how to “wash” themselves after sex …
http://cnsnews.com/node/75198
So it’s clear that the AIDS researchers, at ground zero of the HIV war – are saying “yes” to circumcision. 😀
Circumcision started off as a weapon against the disaster of masturbation, moved to an anti-syphilis prophylaxis, and is now marketed as being an anti-AIDS weapon. There is some (probable) truth in this assertion, but there are easier ways to prevent infection. And the side effects? Meatal stenosis, infection, bleeding, scarring, being “too short”? Nah, that’s off message, keep quiet about that. And it’s nothing to do with anti-semitism.
There are plenty of other examples of treatments looking for diseases. Check out Noxyflex, for example: or Trasylol.
Ya ya … and Christmas started off as a pagan holiday – ipso facto – the Christians are pagans.
Doesn’t work that way Korhomme and you’re smart enough to realize that.
Not “some” … not “probable” – but definite. It’s been proven by several surveys already Korhomme. As far as more “efficient” ways to prevent the spread of infection – have you contacted the folks on the ground in Africa to give them some ideas? Or are you back-seat driving here? I submit the latter – and no likes a back seat driver.
And the side effects? Meatal stenosis, infection, bleeding, scarring, being “too short”? Nah, that’s off message, keep quiet about that. And it’s nothing to do with anti-semitism.
Got a number on that? Because Maggie’s link above shows $2 BILLIONS in health care wasted on non-circumcized males in this country. I’m just wondering if you can come up with something quantifiable to back up your assertion that it’s harmful. I don’t think you can.
Unlike you, I have done lots of circumcisions. For medical reasons. I’ve seen the complications than can arise. And tried to fix those of others. It’s not as clear cut as you try to make out; but to make a case for routine circumcision on the grounds above is disingenuous. Remember, your US surgeons have a vested, financial interest in circumcision; they are not neutral observers. And I’m not going to try any further to open your mind.
Korhomme … the problem with your side is that you’ve pronounced this a problem but you won’t EVER tell us what the solution is.
DO … YOU … INTEND … TO … CRIMINALIZE … THE … PRACTICE?
If not – then no biggie – good luck with convincing the Jews to give up the practice.
If you plan to FORCE them however – then you’re more than just a surgeon – you’re a tyrant.
I wouldn’t say that everyone at ground zero are supporting this at all. A group called Pandos East Africa found that there is higher incidence of AIDS in circumcised Ugandans, for instance. And Zimdiaspora, an organization in Zimbabwe, has said much the same thing about their country.
Meanwhile in response to Western hysteria, gangs in places like Uganda are chasing down men and performing forced circumcision on them
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/06/uganda-male-circumcision-campaign-goes-horribly-wrong/53803/
:O
Link? How can I even be sure this organization even used scientific methods to determine this?
Diversion – which has nothing to do with this discussion. Bad people abuse stuff – that has nothing to do with the right or wrong of circumcision.
Let me explain my world view on this – it’s “live and let live”. Since I’m not raising the kids of other people – I say let their parents use CHOICE and decide whether or not they should circumcise their kid. In MY WORLD – those parents won’t be criticized for their choice. IN MY WORLD – I make no distinction that a circumcised male is somehow “superior” to a non-circumcised male (or vice versa). In MY WORLD – we kind of live and let live and stay out of affairs that we have no business in.
Please explain to me … your vision. Would remove this choice from parents? Would you force religious institutions to give up the practice?
That’s really all I’m asking. Because – really, you have a right to ridicule circumcision and a right to laugh at it. Just as I have a right to dismiss you completely on this issue. What you DO NOT have a right to do – is to attempt to FORCE your view on me.
That, my friend – is where we part company and I sincerely hope that’s not what you’re saying.
My idea of “legalization” is neither party goes to jail or gets a fine.
Mitt Romney and Obama – more similarities than you’d imagine …
Out of almost 400,000,000 Americans in this nation – ONLY TWO have a big-government socialized health care system named after them – and both of these guys are running for President. What’s the statistical likelihood of this? 😛
As stated – both have polygamy in their ancestral history.
Both have ALMOST NO military service in their ancestral history. Romney has NO ancestor who’s ever served – while Obama does have a white uncle who stormed the beach at D-Day.
NPR wonders if Obama and Romney are the same guy …
http://www.npr.org/2012/04/17/150795727/are-obama-and-romney-the-same-guy
My aunt got ahold of me last night and yelled at me about my stated intent to vote for Obama. I told her … “We’re not electing a President – we’re electing a pilot who will sit in the cockpit while the plane crashes – a crash test dummy if you will – and I’m just sure that Obama makes a better one!”
She was outraged – over two decades of military service, and in combat zones, but that didn’t matter to her because she was looking at me with those evil “You are UN-American!” eyes! LOL – seriously, it really bothered her.
Which amazes me – why should my ONE vote bother her? Second – can’t she see that there’s no difference between these two guys except that MAYBE one might spend money a bit faster that the other?
Romney and Obama are opposites: Obama wants to force everyone to buy insurance, escalate our nation’s wars, and protect the rich, while Romney wants to protect the rich, escalate our nation’s wars, and force everyone to buy insurance.
“Tur is Tur.” said standing on one’s feet.
“Tur is Tur.” said standing on one’s head.
These statements are opposites. They deemed the same to Ulysses Paxton, but he lacks faith.
“We’re not electing a President – we’re electing a pilot who will sit in the cockpit while the plane crashes – a crash test dummy if you will – and I’m just sure that Obama makes a better one!”
LOL. But I can’t agree as to who would make the best dummy. I have no idea which is made of the cheaper plastic…..
“Studies have long shown that when babies are not circumcised…bacteria and viruses can get trapped in the extra layers of skin left on the penis”
There are at least as many studies that show no benefit to circumcision. Even the article that Maggie linked to says that the Academy of American Pediatrics sees the evidence as inconclusive and thus takes no position on this.
If we conclude that this study is “inconclusive” then let’s at least apply the same logical standard to the studies YOU support. 😀
And we’d then be in agreement. 😀
As a new reader to this blog I spend my time doing two things, reading new and old posts and drinking large amounts of Pepto because I get so ticked off my head could explode. Speaking of which I just drank my last drop of pink relief and need more.
Also in Switzerland, there’s a discussion going on about male circumcision because a judge deemed it a criminal assault if performed because of religious motives. As always, many idiots started comparing it to genital mutilation, some even claiming it’s the same thing and have the same reasons, namely removing the bodily parts that are deemed to be characteristic of the opposite sex, and that the effects are about the same…this ignorance makes me absolutely furious. The clitoris itself has a foreskin which can be removed or split, for some women this heightens sensibility. In very rare cases it’s circumcised for health reasons, just the same as the male foreskin. On the other hand, the male equivalent of genital mutilation would be removing the glans or even the whole penis.
Enough of the circumcision dicksizing. It’s offensive. Moreover, our host specifically warned us not to do this.
Maggie, should I post about the anatomical similarities and differences between boys and girls: or is your audience sufficiently aware of this?
I think most are familiar, and I’ve written on the subject before. But if someone asks for more please, by all means do so!
The polygamy of Obama’s family stems from the tradition of wealthy men being able to afford more than one wife. The polygamy of Romney’s family stems from kicking out Mormon boys to decrease competition.
I think the former is healthy and normal, while the latter is not. Others might disagree.
I wanted to make a post for once supporting you Susan! I agree!
I have no problem with voluntarily-contracted polygamy, whatever its underlying motivations. And I must point out that Romney’s family gave it up much longer ago than Obama’s, but for exactly the same reasons: the US prohibits it.
Susan wrote, stems from kicking out Mormon boys to decrease competition.
While that is the practice of some of the splinter groups extant in the US today; eg., Warren Jeffs’ FLDS or the various incarnations of the LeBaron family, the original Mormon polygamists were an example of wealthy men being able to afford more than one wife. That they had a religious explanation for it was just icing on the cake.
Most of them were wealthy enough to provide separate homes for each wife’s family and visited them on a schedule like an itinerant preacher. Even Brigham Young, whose massive “Lion House” provided roof and room for as many as 12 of his wives and their offspring, had other houses about town to shelter the rest.
Given that the polygamy of Romney’s family is a century in the past and three generations removed, it’s a bit silly to attribute the sins of some modern practitioners upon his head. Particularly when there are lots of real extant things you could be doing that with…
One reason that Scandi countries are so against circumcision is that they experience virtually no problems from its absence. All the rants about HIV and other bad things fails to impress them because these problems are mysteriously absent there.
Those countries, and especially Iceland, have good survelliance of health issues. It is well known that female to male transmission of HIV is not just rare, it is more like non-existant. The problems potentially arising – cough – from having a foreskin are all managable by the use of ones brain. There is nothing inevitable about them.
It is a lot like the issue of gun control. I live in a place in Texas with over 12,000 people and the incidence of gun crimes has been 0 (zero) for decades. That is why it is so hard to sell it in a place like this.
Nonexistent? So, every man with HIV got it via blood or sex with another man?
Sorry, I don’t buy this. The rate can be low, but saying it’s nonexistent is a big step.
Yes, my town is upscale and hardly diverse. But there in lies something very important, imho, when talking about this kind of issue.
Polygamy happens when women decide they would rather be the 2nd or 3rd or 4th wife of a rich guy than the only wife of a poor guy.
But it is bad news for society as a whole. Far too many men are left with no reason to care what happens to it.. They might appreciate a sex worker but they are unlikely to sacrifice very much on her behalf. A young wife and child is a whole different matter.
Barack the Elder was married to two women at the same time? But really, I couldn’t care less how many wives Obama’s ancestors or Romney’s ancestors had.
Not touching the circumcision issue. Not even as an excuse to talk about My Balls.