I have recently started an account on a popular escort review site and attempted to contact several ladies, but because I don’t have an established history, they’ve all either failed to respond or turned me down because I can’t provide any referrals. I’m sure I haven’t been lewd or inappropriate in any way, and all of my information has been forthright, so I’m hoping you can shed some light on why nobody will see me.
You need to approach women who advertise as “newbie friendly”. Due to the cops pursuing internet “stings” much more aggressively than in the past, many escorts have become extremely nervous in the past few years; it used to be that the majority of hookers arrested were streetwalkers (because they’re “low-hanging fruit” and cops are lazy), but due to all the hype about Backpage, federal (and even private) funds are now available for “detectives” to cruise the internet all day, attempting to trick women so they can humiliate, bind, cage and sometimes even rape them. And while an escort who was arrested in the past could just pay a fine and be done, thanks to “trafficking” hysteria many jurisdictions won’t accept that; since the narrative is that we’re all “victims” with “pimps”, some places will hold an arrested sex worker indefinitely until she agrees to produce the name of her “pimp”…who probably doesn’t exist. And when you add the danger of having her possessions stolen and her children abducted, you can see why many ladies are far more cautious nowadays, especially if you live in an area where the cops have adopted these evil tactics.
Escorts who advertise as “newbie friendly” use a screening system which is less dependent on referrals, and are thus more likely to see you without them. And after you’ve seen a couple of these ladies, you can use them as referrals to see others. Alternately, you could pay a verification service like Preferred 411 to discreetly research your background; you would then provide your P411 identification to an escort you wish to see, and if she agrees to meet she gives you an “OK” after the date. As you accumulate “OKs” (and other referrals) you will find you have less and less difficulty in securing appointments.
(Have a question of your own? Please consult this page to see if I’ve answered it in a previous column, and if not just click here to ask me via email.)
A lot of guys who complain about this are guys who want to have their cake and eat it too.
I mean – I have YET to find a girl who wouldn’t see me if I gave her my personal information … basically whatever she asked for (within reason that is). But a lot of guys call up a girl and just say “Hey I’m John Smith – I got no referrals – when can we meet?”
The girl cannot take ALL the risk – the guys have to accept some too. And at least with the first couple of girls – you’re going to have to tell them your real name, where you work, a phone number where they can verify employment, etc. If you’re working with an established lady with a great reputation – you don’t have much to fear. If you give this information to a BackPage lady of unknown qualities – you’re an idiot. So it’s just something you have to research to minimize the risk – but you can’t eliminate it entirely.
My ATF has “spidey sense” … she’ll see a newbie – but she can smell a rat.
My “piggy sense” was so good it failed only once in almost seven years, despite the fact that we didn’t do any actual screening in those days. However, as I point out in the text, back then they were much more interested in street girls, and escort stings were comparatively rare; stalking and attacking escorts as a regular hobby is only a few years old.
Roger that … but it’s not just the cops to worry about … there are bad dudes out there. I told my ATF that if she ever needed me to “hang outside” her incall during a session she wasn’t sure of – I’d do it. I have done that for one other girl who was traveling through the area. My ATF said … “Krulac, if I’m the least bit concerned about a guy I won’t see him at all.”
Hmm, it’s been ages since I looked for an escort (it has literally been over a decade) but the first escorts I ever saw worked in Incall locations. Now, eventually I “graduated” to Outcalls, but it’s also true that the biggest Internet based sting operation in my part of the country hadn’t happened in my area until long after I was a regular client of an escort I liked.
However what used to be true has to still be true, which is this: If an Incall venue is operating in an open, obvious way, they have to have some kind of relationship with the local police. Now, that could be as simple as “benign neglect,” where the cops simply have more important things to do than shut down the local “private lingerie modelling” or “executive body rub” places.
More likely it is a financial arrangement, contributions flow to the police retirement fund, and therefore the busts happen elsewhere. (Incidentally, you’ll have to check the boards for these places just as you would an independent girl… if where you live actually has no Incall locations, that probably explains the reluctance of the local talent to get involved with clients without references. Some places are serious about cracking down on “vice.” There’s a reason why the phrase “banned in Boston” entered popular usage.)
However, if I were doing this today, I might simply combine my first trips to see escorts with trips to countries with less horrible attitudes about escorts than you see in the United States. I’ve always wanted to visit a lot of the countries in the world where they don’t have our punitive, aggressive enforcement against sex work. The great thing is that you could then use those foreign escorts as references if you wanted to meet escorts closer to home. (Although truthfully, if I were to find myself single, I would probably be planning to emigrate someplace with a more enlightened attitude toward sex work.)
If none of that appeals, you could always try booking an extended date with a well documented lady for your first outing. If she’s making more than she usually does, she might be more inclined to take a chance on you. (The first Outcall I ever tried to do was an extended date including dinner… the lady ended up having to reschedule because she had gotten arrested on the way to meet me on an unrelated matter.)
About 30 years ago when I was in Hawaii … “incalls” were pretty obvious. They took the form of “massage parlors” and “health spas”. I had a girlfriend who worked in one and, you are correct, the owner paid “donations” to specific funds that the police chose for him – or rather “suggested”. Years later – they got a new police chief and he reneged on the deal and told them to shut down – there was no “sting” they just closed their doors because they knew time was up.
Now … incalls are very often operated out of apartments … or traveling girls will get a hotel. These locations are NOT known by the police.
Neighbors are what you have to watch out for. They watch everything going on. This is the biggest problem in keeping an incall location secret. They’ll call the cops. One of the girls in my area said her incall “lasted” eight months – then she got a note on the windshield of her car that said … “We know what you are.”
She had to move.
My ATF operates out of a gated apartment complex – upscale. I’ll go in carrying my guitar – as if I’m giving guitar lessons – nobody suspects a John carrying a guitar case. Next time I’m thinking about dressing up as an air conditioner repairman – they are a dime a dozen here in the South. I walk up to the door – she opens it naked – and BEGS me to fix her air conditioner! Security and Fantasy all rolled into one!!
There seems to be some difficulty with renting apartments in Ireland; apparently it’s much harder in the North than the South. It’s not that the landlords don’t know what the girls are doing, more that so many in the North have “traditional” views.
I don’t see what all the fuss is about. You go out and see a couple of newbie friendly ladies, get some references from them, and then you can try to see some more established ladies who have stricter requirements. The newbie friendly ladies need to be well established ladies, not someone off of Backpage. And remember that working your way up to the point where you have a list of references is a lot of fun!
It’s hard to believe that sex work is still illegal in some places in this fair world of ours and that you have to go through this horrid procedure so often! Yuck! Bring on full human rights and legal rights for all sex workers!
You don’t know the half of it! Every time I see a new girl … there’s the “two call” procedure to deal with. She doesn’t tell you where the incall is. You call when you leave and she gives you a “landmark” close to where she’s at for you point at.
Then when you reach that landmark – you place another call to her to get the incall location.
Beware P411 has been the target of the feds for some time, a few months back over 22 escorts where arrested in Denver using P411, and they also caught 4 providers vouching for clients they have never met in return of a 50 dollar paypal payment. The site owner was not willing to make changes to protect the providers and clients and many of us have removed our profiles from the site.
Other issues that have happened with P411 over the past few months include them allowing an ex employee to get access to all their customers credit card information and I also know they approve providers that nobody seems to know. So anyone can make up a website, create a fake review and gain access to p411 within minutes and then they can go vouch for any client profile they want . Have no doubt the FED”S have already gotten in this site.
Another reason P411 became a target by the feds is that the clients are on the review boards posting “P411 has lots of young girls real cheap” no doubt that caught the feds attention.
I have had many reports from escorts that claim P411 threatens to throw them off the site f they blacklist a client, so it starting to sound like David Elm from TER back in the days, and they do not seem to have much concern for the escorts safety. If you complain or have concerns for P411 you will be thrown off their site so they are not interested in stepping up security in order to keep their users safe.
After the last nationwide sting the feds put out in the media that if a provider calls another provider for reference, that is now deemed trafficking and proof she doesn’t work alone, and could be considered a criminal enterprise. Even with the cops stalking escorts, the changes of getting caught are low, as they cant police even 1% of the industry on a good day. The chances of getting robbed, raped or murdered are much higher than getting arrested.
Keep in mind just because a client was OK with another provider does not mean he won’t pull some shit on you. I have learned that if confirm who a man is and where he works he will not dare pull any shit. You will also only book about 80% of your inquires but you will find safe + respectful gentlemen.
Goddam – I didn’t even know any this. I’m not on P411 though – I almost signed up but something scares me about putting my personal info into a computer that I have no control over. I’d much rather give it to a girl – most of them shred it anyway after you’ve seen them. If it’s found by law enforcement – I just say … “Eh, how’d she get that? A STALKER!!” but if they find it online in a computer database that only I could have input into – plus a credit card number (which P411 requires I think – for the sign-up fee) … NOPE!!! Ain’t goin’ there!!
My ATF won’t take references from certain providers. If there’s a male pimp involved – nope … she won’t take the reference. If it’s a girl under the age of 21 – nope.
Thanks for the info! Bella, are you still in the business?
“I could have input into – plus a credit card number (which P411 requires I think – for the sign-up fee) … NOPE!!! Ain’t goin’ there!!”
I don’t blame you in the least, but if you’re interested, there is a way around this…I’m a pro-switch (fetish worker) in NYC and I pay for all of my ads, from Backpage to Eros, with a pre-paid credit card that I buy from the drug store. I pay for the card in cash, so there is no record of the purchase with my bank, and then I go to an internet cafe and post my ads. I make up the billing information. That way, if Backpage ever is required by the DA to turn over its records, they won’t have my info.
I tell my provider friends to do the same…pre-paid credit cards are the way to go, and my Sex Worker Mistress Batphone is also a disposable pre-paid phone.
I do have to wonder–and I’m not picking on you here, Krulac, I like your attitude and your compassion–but: what’s up with the Backpage hate? I know it’s not as shiny and sophisticated as Eros, but I’ve met some of my best regular clients on Backpage! Fun, generous, respectful standup guys! Though, I must admit, the men who contact me through Eros are more serious and very willing to submit to screening.
Maybe Backpage is different from the male/customer POV?
Also, FWIW, when I started doing fetish sex work independently (not in a commercial dungeon), I started screening, and I had to learn how to do it the hard way, and after much online research. Your articles about it helped me a lot, so THANK YOU for that, Maggie!
Fetish workers often don’t screen…it’s a new practice in the biz. Clients are paranoid about it and feel resentful about it.
Thanks for this blog.
Miss Margo
MM … there’s some GREAT providers on Backpage – no doubt.
The problem is – they are “sandwiched” in a jungle of outright scams … bait and switch deals … satanic pimps … crack whores … non-serious girls – with the threat of LE being on the other end peppered in for good measure. I have never had a bad experience with an escort – because I’ve always done my research. I’ve never been chased by pimps – actually, it would be better say I’ve never had to “clock” one – since I ain’t running from one. Never showed up to find an emaciated girl with white powder under her nose. Never been arrested (KNOCK ON WOOD – I see a new girl tomorrow!)
I’m not in it for the “pussy” … though I am a complete male hound with only one thing on his mind usually … I like the full package and I like intelligent women – or fun women – or intelligent and fun women – who are doing it for the right reasons. I like adding high-quality girls to my list of wonderful women that I’ve been intimate with throughout my life. I would not “hobby” simply for the sex – I do have a hand for that and now, with the advent of the internet and computer mice – I can do that left handed too!!
Now, let’s say I come across your Ad in Backpage … and it interests me … but I don’t know anything about you. I will not call you until I’ve researched you. This means I’ll be looking for you on P411 (the public profiles – since I’m not a member). I will look for reviews on you on TER and ECCIE also. I’ll Google … if I can’t find anything in those places. If I can’t find ANYTHING on you that convinces me you are legit – and not a waste of my time and money – then you won’t get a call.
I go up to Connecticut on travel frequently – ECCIE seems to be “broke down” up there. The girls in that area advertise they’re available in New York, Rhode Island, Connecticut … basically the whole New England area – but I know when I call them – they aren’t going to be anywhere close to where I am – or they’ll charge me to drive from NYC to New London or whatever. So … up there I look at Backpage – but tell the truth – I haven’t hired a single provider there (though I would like to) simply because I couldn’t “verify” them properly.
Thanks for the info and sharing your personal perspective, Krulac. I haven’t really looked at the other girls’ Backpage ads, so I didn’t realize how hairy it was. I’m actually going to go take a look as soon as I finish this comment.
Your policy on screening providers is very sound, and if I was a guy, I’d follow your protocol. You do have to protect yourself. The only thing I’d like to put out there is that some women like myself who are not career providers fly as far under the radar as we can…I’m a part-timer with a “day” job, so I don’t have a website or allow reviews (most reviews boards are escort-centric, but fetish providers are sometimes reviewed). I’m scared to death of being outed.
I do understand why a family man with a lot at stake (or any man) would decline to session with me because of my very limited online presence. some of them have told me that: “I’m glad I took a chance on you!” It sucks, but I guess everything is a trade-off. 🙁
As a client, have you ever been ripped off? What’s the biggest fear you have when you see an escort/sex worker? Being arrested or stolen from? I’m just curious how the man sees it.
Also, when you provide screening info, has a provider ever tried to use it against you or blackmail you? I’d be paranoid about this happening to me, but I’m just wondering if any women ever actually DID it.
Thank you
Miss Margo
Here’s an example …
http://alexandria.backpage.com/FemaleEscorts/1-_-b_-u-_-s_-t_-y-_-brunette-_-b_-o_-m_-b_-s_h_-e-_l-_l-23/7856687
Now … THAT’s a hot chick. Too bad that is not the actual picture of the “provider” that posted that BP Ad.
Nope – all those pics were stolen off a soft-core porn site called “Sweet Krissy” – that’s Sweet Krissy herself – in the flesh!! And you can … er … see a lot of flesh!! 😀
It took me 30 seconds to find that bogus ad on BP – because there’s so many of them.
How did I know that was “Sweet Krissy”? I didn’t – I took one of the images shown in that ad and plugged it into Google’s image search (which not everyone knows how to do – but it’s really easy). The search came back with every place on the web that that image is used.
So this is a “bait and switch” … the girl that opens the door MIGHT be hot … or she might definitely NOT be – but in any case – the ad is deceptive and there’s a roll of the dice involved here and I’m not really a gambler. LOL!
A lady I know uses Backpage extensively and it’s a great resource for her. She’s mostly does normal escorting, but she will do fetish work if clients are very specific about what they want. (And it fits in her comfort zone… she’s fairly liberal minded but she has things she won’t do too.)
You’re very welcome, Margo. 🙂
Hello wonderful Maggie! I hope this reaches you as I’ve sent a couple before with no response. My apologies if you are just too busy- my own website takes a ridiculous amount of time and I can only imagine the work required for a daily extensive post such as your own awesome blog. Anyway….my name is Sangsara, I am a adult product reviewer/blogger and an escort/erotic masseuse in recovery from hard drugs and 5 yrs of survival sex. I absolutely LUV what I do now- instead of hiding from my past or playing the victim I have chosen to use my experiences as strength and have returned to the trade (after a 4 yr hiatus) but with one major difference- strong boundaries. Everytime I make a decent connection with a client I feel the wounds of my poisonous past healing. My reason for emailing today other than to say that your blog is incredible and greatly appreciated – I have started bb/buddy press on my blog attempting to start a community for past and current sex workers of all types and levels (all the way from clients to cam girls/guys to street hos and everything inbetween) I want people to be able to post anything from a review to life stories to funny anecdotes about work to tips and tricks for their corner of the trade. I was wondering if you would be interested in joining, even though it is just in its infancy and will need at least a year to become a decent sized place of support, education and entertainment for SPs/STWs/SWs etc. Also what do you think of posting your RSS feed in the forums? Or at least a link? Thanx again http://Www.sexualitysanctuary.com Julia (Sangsara)
Thanx! XO Julie
Hi Julie! I probably don’t have time to join any forums, but you can feel free to post my RSS feed or reblog anything you like, and if I can help with anything you know where to find me!
Understood!!! Thankyou so much and I definitely will post your RSS feed on my blog. Thsnkyou
This is another of those “this is good to know, even though I myself can’t use the information” posts. But I do read them, and I pay attention, because someday I might be able to put it to use, or hey, I might write a story and it’s nice to get things right.