Being the bloodsuckers that they are, they prey on innocent, unsuspecting people and try to find a way to ply their wares. – “Major” Nick Clark
The one small mercy (and believe me, I really had to stretch to find one) of neo-Victorianism is that we haven’t heard much of the myth of the wanton lately. For those who may not even remember it, this is the formerly-universal belief among men that:
…the lust of women is stronger than that of men, and that women thus draw men into sin; the widespread interpretation (though certainly not the original meaning) of the story of the Fall is that Eve’s offering Adam the apple is symbolic of her tempting him into carnality, and to this very day Muslim men pontificate from the pulpit (and on the internet) about the greater lustfulness of women. The Classical Greek philosophers taught that woman was like an animal always in heat, and the mythology of every part of Eurasia is full of temptresses, seductresses, succubae, enchantresses, whores and other wanton women whose entire reason for existence seems to consist of luring men into sex…
The idea generally fell out of favor in the West during the Victorian Era, and though it experienced a brief revival in some circles during the sexual revolution I had thought it largely out of fashion again except among some sex-positive feminists who insist that the ladies are generally just as randy as the gents despite the inconvenient fact that women never seem to want it enough to pay for it, and almost never to behave in any other way that demonstrates the voracious sex drive typical in most men. Yes, there are some individual women whose sex drive is greater than that of some individual men (especially among the beaten-down variety so common in the modern West), but the fact that there are mountains whose peaks are closer to sea level than the bottoms of many valleys does not invalidate the general statement “mountains tend to be higher than valleys”. Yet every once in a while, we see somebody playing fast and loose with cherry-picked statistics and calling it “groundbreaking research”, usually to sell a book:
…Even to the most casual observer of human history, it isn’t news that women’s sexuality has been feared, suppressed and lied about. But What Do Women Want? Adventures in the Science of Female Desire by journalist Daniel Bergner uses groundbreaking sex research to show the ways in which our supposedly enlightened society still has female sexuality backward — completely, utterly, profoundly…gender stereotypes have shaped scientific research and blinded researchers to evidence of female lust and sexual initiation throughout the animal kingdom, including among humans. It reveals how society’s repression of female sexuality has reshaped women’s desires and sex lives. Bergner, and the leading sex researchers he interviews, argue that women’s sexuality is not the rational, civilized and balancing force it’s so often made out to be — that it is base, animalistic and ravenous, everything we’ve told ourselves about male sexuality…In fact, he argues, “one of our most comforting assumptions, soothing perhaps above all to men but clung to by both sexes, that female eros is much better made for monogamy than the male libido, is scarcely more than a fairy tale”…
I totally agree that women’s sexuality can be base and animalistic, that it isn’t all that well-adapted to monogamy, and that a lot of the reason it appears otherwise (and that so many women are functionally asexual) is cultural pressure. But to say that this means that the female sex drive is as ravenous as men’s is to ignore that male sexuality is also shaped and suppressed by cultural pressure, especially from women, and that functionally asexual men are extremely rare. Here’s a comical video showing what the world might look like if women really were as horny as men:
Very few people nowadays believe this nonsense, but there’s a limited form of it which seems to be crawling out of the woodwork again: the notion that while “good” women (Madonnas) are sexually pure, “bad” women (whores) are predatory succubae always on the prowl for “good” men:
…Alabama state Sen. Shadrack McGill…[said] a number of strippers had come to his work [and] even to his home in the middle of the night…his “Facebook was hijacked and women sent me pictures of themselves half-naked”…McGill’s wife, Heather, decided that she had enough and…posted a message to his Facebook page: “I am very blessed to be the wife of a God fearing, hard working, ministry minded, loving father and husband and it is not just my right but my duty to lovingly serve him by protecting him!…We have children that look at our face books [sic] from time to time! Shame on you! You know who you are. Next time everyone will know who you are!! For I will publicly share your name before we ‘unfriend’ you”…
And when we ravenous harlots aren’t stalking “God-fearing” men (to ruin their paladinhood, no doubt) we’re attacking their wives:
…Anna Burgese, the…wife of a wealthy…Philadelphia homebuilder, claims in [a] federal lawsuit that as many as 10 prostitutes pounced on her in the…lobby [of the W hotel in Miami Beach] on Jan. 19. They mistakenly believed that she was encroaching on their turf…Instead of helping Burgese catch the attackers, the suit contends that the “prostitute-friendly’’ hotel put the women in a taxi to facilitate their escape…over the past decade, Miami Beach’s prostitution rings have taken on a more sophisticated and sinister side, involving sex-trafficking and women from Eastern European countries, known as “B-girls,’’ who fleece deep-pocketed tourists…Burgese claims that the assault was unprovoked and that the prostitutes threw her face-first against a stone wall in front of hotel employees. Her husband…fought the women off with his crutches…
How fondly I remember those sinister old times, getting together in huge gangs of “high-priced escorts” to beat up aging debutantes at the W in New Orleans! And sometimes, just for an extra-sophisticated change of pace, we’d all sashay in formation over to the Windsor Court to slash the tires of Rolls-Royces and Ferraris, or perhaps to the Hyatt Regency to ride up and down in the glass elevator, running out at each floor to scrawl obscenities on people’s doors with lipstick and dump room service leftovers into the ornamental pool in the lobby. And every time guests would complain, the “prostitute-friendly” staff would whisk us off in taxicabs with “Born To Be Wild” blaring on the stereo. What carefree days those were, before all these God-fearing enemies of trafficking appeared to beat us off with their crutches and “unfriend” us on Face Books! I swear, it just makes a girl want to join the packed crowd down at the nearest male stripper club to lose herself among all the hundreds of other base, animalistic and ravenous hussies.
Has an Alabama State Senator ever said anything intelligent? 🙂
No. Never
Well there’s one.
Shelby’s a US Senator from Alabama, not an Alabama State Senator.
If you are a man, and you want a simulation of what it would be like to live in a world where women approached men the way men approach women in bars, try a strip club that offers private dances.
I suggested it to a former friend of mine who would complain loudly and often of how bereft of female company he was and how lonely he was. Well, he went alone to one and was disturbed and horrified by the scene, then he went home and told his mother and sister (who he lived with… not judging but that probably influenced the lack of female company) and they berated him for being a pervert, and then he berated me for being an evil and sleazy bad influence on him. I must admit, we weren’t close enough for me to be hurt by me losing his friendship, and I found the whole sequence of events worth a chuckle. (Seriously, this guy loved his porn but presented with real live girls… sigh… I came up with the idea for him after trading with him for some of his back issues of Penthouse. The way some men draw a clean bright line between looking at pictures or video and looking at a real woman in person frankly disturbs me.)
I used to have the exact opposite reaction and loved all the attention and naked ladies.
Still, I feel for the Senator, I have lots of pictures of half-naked women in my Facebook feed too… oh, I guess it doesn’t count when you sign up for them on purpose, does it?
Women most certainly have sex drives, but ours is tempered with responsibility. There’s always been the fear of rape or pregnancy attached, or, in more social times, the ruin of our reputations.
But I agree that my own, the the women I’ve known sex drives don’t lead us into some of the odd troubles that men get into.
Some of this may be cultural, men are expected, in our society, to go out and take what they want, whereas women are expected to attract what we want to us. Thus men are more likely to act, and get in trouble.
But I don’t think culture is the whole explanation. I suspect there is a biological basis.
I think you are right. Men are hardwired to spread their little guys far and wide, but there’s no biological downside. Women, their egg gets fertilized, and there are consequences for the next nine months. There’s no point, biologically speaking, to want sex while they are carrying a baby….the deed is already done, so to speak.
Of course with all the hormone craziness going on when a woman is gestating, it’s unpredictable. One girlfriend of mine confessed that she was so horny when she was pregnant, she’d have her husband come home for lunch-break quickies. 🙂
In my opinion, one of the big differences between men and women as far as sex goes is trust, which for women is I think essential but for men is simply desirable. That goes along with the fear of rape, but also the other fears too.
I’ve had sex with women who I knew, absolutely knew, from past experience, to be completely untrustworthy. I think women are a lot more selective in that regard. (I’m probably an anomaly even among men, but this same scenario happens in enough detective and crime stories to think it isn’t that anomalous.)
That’s very interesting, because there are different levels and sorts of trust. There’s “I hope you’re not a mad rapist/serial killer” trust, there’s “I hope you won’t be turned off by my{insert your least-favorite body part}” trust, and “please don’t run away when I ask you to {insert your favorite kinky sex practice}” trust.
I too have had sex with partners I knew to be not all that trustworthy, but I knew that ahead of time. I would not do that nowadays because there are electronic consequences that were unheard of in my single youth. There was no Facebook or “punish my ex-girlfriend” sites back then.
That’s true, I grew up in a different time too. I was on the Internet before most people, and it took many years for doxxing to be a thing.
But think of this, guys almost never get embarrassed by pictures of them with attractive women, unless it will hurt their careers or their marriage, different story for women, sadly.
I sometimes wonder if we haven’t made the mistake of exaggerating the importance of sex, and that that distortion causes or magnifies the other distortions that we see. Then I will see a nature documentary that includes a segment about the courtship behaviors that some males go through to win a mate, and I conclude that maybe it just isn’t possible to be rational about a drive that powerful.
I still say that cuddling is worth a hell of a lot more than shagging, though.
P.S. I’m male, and married.
I’m a bit torn on this.
I think I would say that women, for the most part, are only capable of acquiring and sustaining a “male-like” lust for short periods of time. And – it’s really not “male-like” because they’re not really “aggressive” with it – it’s more like a strong “receptiveness”.
On the boat – when we cast off the lines for deployment – the men were ready to hit anything that moved. The women? Well they seemed to become “receptive” around the 40 day point at sea – and at that point I had to double the Master At Arms efforts to dissuade shipboard sex from happening. Even so – I had one pregnancy occur aboard the ship every time we deployed. One girl confessed to me it happened in the Forward Vertical Launch Station Control room – which is the place you launch missiles and is a secure area. LOL – how romantic.
Well – she sure fired off a “missile” that day – and it hit it’s target – though I’m not sure she was very happy about it.
I have always known when a woman is interested in me because she flashes those “eyes” at me that essentially encourage me to approach her. If I don’t take the initiative – well that’s it – cuz she ain’t gonna come at me again. But if I DO take the initiative and approach her – I’m usually rewarded. If she flashes “those eyes” – then it’s hard for me to not get lucky unless I say something stupid when I approach her.
One thing I’m interested in – but I don’t know the answer is this … often when I’m having sex – I’m just lost in it like some Neaderthal – and my thoughts are only about penetration and insemination. I know this sounds stupid – but I actually think about getting the girl pregnant even if I don’t want her to get pregnant really.
And I have a had a few women tell me – in the middle of it all – “Make me pregnant!” – or some variation of that. And – all of these women were on the pill and didn’t want to get pregnant. So there is one indication to me that at least some women get lost in it in much the same way I do.
In almost 30 years of being with my wife – she only “attacked” me once – and it turns out she was ovulating because we conceived our son on that occasion (90% sure of that). LOL – she was on the pill too!
But my wife frequently gives me those “it’s okay to do me now” eyes.
So I agree – women’s sex drives are different – and they seem “temporal” to me – the visceral portion of it anyway. It comes and goes – based on hormones I suppose – and probably some other factors.
Still can’t figure out why so many females became receptive after a month at sea – can’t be hormones cuz they’re not synchronized (I wouldn’t think anyway). Maybe they just miss male companionship after awhile?
Dunno.
The more sex I have, the more I want. Once I’m getting it, the urge doesn’t go away. If I’m not getting any, I learn to do without, whereas a guy in that position would likely go apeshit (no offense, Krulac). Back in my single days, if I was getting laid on a regular basis, I would attract men like flies. The confidence that comes with regular sex is a great self-esteem booster, and guys definitely sense that 😉
No offense taken – and you are spot on. A guy without sex – or at least a prospect of sex – goes apeshit. That’s me totally – all my life. I was raised in a Bible town and, without getting into a long story, almost every girl I could ever be interested in DID NOT have sex. I remember wondering, when I was 16 – if it would do any good for me pray to GOD to send me a willing girl.
My first real girlfriend, Rhonda – was a Missionary Baptist who believed it was a sin to cut her hair. Fine with me – she had hair down to her ass and that drives me crazy. But she wouldn’t give up the goods no matter how slick I was. We would sit in my parent’s car and pet for hours – and she’d be so excited I could smell her – but her “superpower” was being able to completely put the brakes on before any “unzipping” occurred. I told her once – “Rhonda, I want you so bad I can’t even think – no really – I cannot think about anything but you – and I have a condom right here and I swear there won’t be a mess and you will leave this car looking and feeling just as great as when you got in it – so can we finally do this?”
And she became very sympathetic – I thought I was about to hit home plate and then she said … “God can help you overcome those impure thoughts Krulac, and I will sit here and pray with you to help you through this.”
Shit. 🙁
I lost my virginity when I was 17 to a woman who was 35 – it happened several times with her but it was totally a “mercy fuck” she gave me. She told me afterwards she could visibly see the pain on my face and that was enough for her to consider “helping” me with that!
One thing I’m interested in – but I don’t know the answer is this … often when I’m having sex – I’m just lost in it like some Neaderthal – and my thoughts are only about penetration and insemination. I know this sounds stupid – but I actually think about getting the girl pregnant even if I don’t want her to get pregnant really.
Sex isn’t necessary to lose all contact with reality. Once I was solicited in the street, and I saw her eyes become brighter, her skin more lustrous. Was this greater perceptiveness or actual hallucination? Beats me.
And I have a had a few women tell me – in the middle of it all – “Make me pregnant!” – or some variation of that. And – all of these women were on the pill and didn’t want to get pregnant. So there is one indication to me that at least some women get lost in it in much the same way I do.
In Korea, girls will often jokingly say “임신합니다” (I’m pregnant) when talking about a guy they really like.
I’m asking the same question if men have higher sex drives than women. But whatever the differences, it can’t be caused by testosterone or estrogen.
There seems to be no very strong linear relationship between testosterone and libido. According to Dr. Thomas G. Travison who analyzed 1632 men aged 40-70: ‘libido was significantly associated with testosterone levels. However, the difference in testosterone levels between participants with low libido and those with high libido was small and “inconsequential.”. Here’s the report:
THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LIBIDO AND TESTOSTERONE LEVELS IN AGING MEN Travison et al. J Clin Endocrinol Metab .2006; 0: jc.2005-2508v1
You can easily find it on the internet.
The same seems to be true for estrogen. When women’s ovaries are removed they don’t report lower sex drives. There are also some scientific studies about that .
Look here:
Oophorectomy in Premenopausal Women: Health-Related Quality of Life and Sexual Functioning by Teplin, Vanessa MD; Vittinghoff, Eric PhD; Lin, Feng MS; Learman, Lee A. MD, PhD; Richter, Holly E. PhD, MD; Kuppermann, Miriam PhD, MPH (Obstetrics & Gynecology: February 2007 – Volume 109 – Issue 2, Part 1 – pp 347-354)
And here:
Sexual activity and functioning in women who underwent salpingo-oophorectomy to prevent hereditary breast ovarian cancer. by T. M. Michelsen, A. A. Dahl, C. Trope, A. Dørum; Oslo University Hospital, Rikshospitalet, Oslo, Norway; The Norwegian Radium Hospital, Oslo University Hospital, Oslo, Norway (2010)
You can also find these reports easily on the internet. If you want to I can provide links.
When women’s ovaries are removed then quite naturally their estrogen levels and other hormone levels drop! But it has no effect on sex drive. Conclusion: the link between hormones and sex drive must be very weak in humans!!
This leads me to believe that the differences between male and female sexuality have to be cultural. Many women regularly masturbate and why should they do it when their sex drives are low? There are also some reports about that. I know a Dutch report (about 26% of the women masturbate more than twice a month, versus 48% of men).
Perhaps it is true that men are more visual regarding sexuality… but why??? Male and female brains are not different so you cannot find the key in the brains.
Perhaps it is because women know they have to be more careful because they can become pregnant. They have to be very conscious about which men impregnates them. It is not instinctive but something they rationally know, so their behaviour is formed around this knowledge.
You’re wrong about the brains being different; they are, and measurably so. The reason changing hormone levels later in life has little effect is that the changes are made early on; the great majority of them are prenatal, and a few more occur at puberty, and changing the levels after that is mostly fine-tuning. The fact that shifting hormone levels doesn’t effect drive does NOT demonstrate the differences are cultural, but in fact the opposite; people know that hormones affect behavior, so if the differences were truly cultural we’d expect changes due to the placebo effect. The lack of change demonstrates the drives are much deeper than that.
I have read a book written by Cordelia Fine which is called “Delusions of Gender: How Our Minds, Society, and Neurosexism Create Difference”. She claims that if you look at the scientific literature then the idea of differences between male and female brains just doesn’t add up. Often the research is very shaky. Even the idea that the left and right part of the brains are better connected among women doesn’t seem to be true. Tiny differences seem to be more related to the size of the brain than to gender differences. And even if you do find differences you might wonder if this difference results in different behaviour. It could also be some kind of mechanism to make behaviour the same.
There is also a book called “Brain Storm: The Flaws in the Science of Sex Differences” written by Rebecca M. Jordan-Young. I haven’t read this book yet.
All very interesting. Perhaps there are women who get turned on by beautiful men who dance naked. Perhaps it’s cultural. I know of some female porn addicts who compulsively watch pornography and masturbate to it.
Cordelia Fine …
http://www.amazon.com/Delusions-Gender-Society-Neurosexism-Difference/product-reviews/0393340244/ref=cm_cr_dp_qt_hist_one?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addOneStar&showViewpoints=0
The first review is the most articulate and telling.
Krulac wrote:
From that first review:
Ouch! That smarts.
I have read some of these reviews on amazon. The example of David Reimer was put forward by one of the reviewers. David Reimer was born a boy. But after a failed circumcision which destroyed his penis, it was decided to castrate him and let him grow up as a girl. He remained very boyish ever since. This is used as evidence that men and women or boys and girls are fundamentally different.
There’s only one caveat in this argument: David Reimer was 22 months old when he was turned into a girl. That means almost 2 years old. That means that for almost 2 years David Reimer was raised as a boy. This could have had a profound effect on him for the rest of his life.
But the story is still interesting. Perhaps the first 22 months of a person’s life are important in shaping this person’s gender identity and the way he or she behaves. It could still be true that gender identity and gendered behaviour are learned and not inborn.
Ultimately we never know. It is very difficult to disentangle nature from nurture. I think the most honest thing to say is that we simply don’t know.
That many animals show gendered behaviour despite their lack of culture is also no evidence that this must also be true for humans. It could be true that humans are very different in this respect. Many animals have something very characteristic for their species. For instance, dolphins’ brain hemispheres can sleep independently of each other. Other than dolphins, few if any mammals have this trait. Naked mole rats have the same social structure as bees. They have a queen who gives birth to all the children of the group. Very rare among mammals. Perhaps humans are unique in that they are naturally completely androgynous. Seeming differences in behaviour between the genders could be caused by the culture in which they live, perhaps because men are stronger or have different bodies. Perhaps women are less adventurous, less sexual, and more subservient because they know they can receive a beating from a man, or because they will be strongly dissuaded by the members of the clan.
I have an explanation why women don’t seem to react as strongly to men as men to women. It could be because women simply do look more horny. Men are just hairy apes, with no sex appeal. Perhaps women sexually respond to other women too, but they are inhibited from going for it because homosexuality is a taboo.
Perhaps it’s true that humans are solely programmed to sexually respond to naked women. Because men and women’s brains are identical, so naturally what goes for men must also be true for women. If men like to watch naked women, so the same is true for women. Perhaps women also want to hunt for other women and impregnate them, but society inhibits them from doing it. Perhaps humans are such that they are all programmed to impregnate as many women as possible. Women just have to wait until a man approaches them. Then they can make the decision if he is self-confident or will be a good father.
Kris2, I agree that there is only weak evidence for the link between so-called “sex hormones” and libido, but culture isn’t the only alternative explanation.
I think there is good reason to believe that many females are mentally castrated, and I’m talking about physiological dysfunction, not feelings of guilt or propriety. Search the keywords: Clitoral Erectile Dysfunction.
All I will say is that when my wife went through menapause – her libido went into the toilet for two years. I can’t imagine anything else than hormones (or the lack of them) that did that.
Second, male libido – some things that science doesn’t look at a lot …
1. Testosterone is also a PRO-HORMONE in males. Portions of free testosterone are converted into DHT and Estrogen. Further – testosterone in the male body is measured in two ways … “Total” – meaning total testosterone level and “Free” – which means the amount of test that’s actually “free” to do something with and activate receptors. Only a small fraction of male testosterone is “free” for the body to use in creative ways like building muscle and converting to DHT and Estrogen.
2. DHT is the REAL ratty male hormone. It has 2 to 3 times the affinity for androgen receptors than testosterone is. It is the primary hormone that triggers aggression and the desire for a male to penetrate the opposite sex.
3. Estrogen also plays a role in male libido. Too much and male libido is crushed – too little and male libido is crushed. So men need some level of estrogen for libido.
4. SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin) – This stuff can be thought of as a linebacker sacking the quarterback – it “jumps” on free circulating testosterone and wrestles it to the ground and holds it – never letting it up to do anything useful. So SHBG is a factor too.
Anyone who’s looking at testosterone alone – is missing the big picture in male libido. Yes, we are fairly simple beings and highly predictable – but there is a certain mysterious combination of things that make us horny. I haven’t even gotten into dopamine, seratonin, and the adrenal system – which also play a role in male libido.
It is pure folly though – for any scientist to claim that testosterone has little effect on male libido.
I grew up in gyms and I’ve known plenty of guys who use the steroid – testosterone. When these guys are “on cycle” – they are incredibly horny and will fuck anything. I’ve also talked to girls who’ve had sex with them and they claim that, not only are the guys horny all the time – but they can do amazing things in bed while they’re on cycle.
The down side is – when they come off cycle, since the exogenous testosterone has supressed their HPTA – they do not immediately produce their own testosterone – and their libido – and even their ability to have sex toilets.
They have a whole routine called “Post Cycle Treament” (PCT) – which is designed to get their HPTA up and running as quickly as possible to produce their own testosterone and reduce the “libido down time”. During this time – some guys (unwisely I believe) will resort to PROVIRON – an oral DHT steroid – in order to induce libido, and they will also use the hell out of PDE5 inhibitors like Viagra and Cialis.
It’s pure nonsense that hormones don’t play a role in the male sex drive. It’s not the only thing influencing it – but it’s one of the major things if not THE most major thing.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/articles/16506/20130613/male-sex-drive-testosterone-levels-male-libido-sexual-anorexia.htm
^^ A more scholarly articulation of what I’m trying to say here. Test isn’t the full libido picture – but it’s damn sure a big part of it – especially when you consider that other androgens such as DHT and Estrogen are produced from test – and when test is lowered, you end up with less DHT and Estrogen. This article also talks about “ratios” between testosterone and estrogen in males – it’s a delicate balance and the ratio impacts male drive.
This is the most enlightened statement though …
Every male in the western world is bombarded by messages of inevitable tesosterone “crash and burn” – but it doesn’t have to be that way. My total tes always hovers between 900 and 1000 ng/dl – and that’s a level that mose 20 year old men would kill for. Additionally – my FREE test normally runs TWICE the maximum on the Labcorp scale. I’m in my 50’s – but I live differently than most other men do and I especially eat differently.
Another thing …
Test levels are declining in men from what they were 30 years ago – and that is because men are getting farther and farther away from the correct way to live. We were meant to eat red meat people – and work hard – physically work hard – but most men in the west are too pussy for that shit anymore.
Isn’t this all caused by the placebo effect? Because men believe they become more horny when they take anabolic steroids or testosterone, they actually do become very horny. It could be all between the ears. Perhaps you could perform a double blind study to study the effect of testosterone and other substances. The trouble is that these substances have strong physical effects, so the men immediately notice it and then start to believe they become more horny, and actually do become horny. So this won’t work. I think we will never know.
I must admit that I have forgotten to mention another study. It is the following one which you can also find online:
The Impact of Surgical Castration on Sexual Recidivism Risk Among Sexually Violent Predatory Offenders by Linda E. Weinberger, PhD, Shoba Sreenivasan, PhD, Thomas Garrick, MD and Hadley Osran, MD [J Am Acad Psychiatry Law 33:1:16-36 (2005)]
(I copied the next piece of text from my blog)
The research is about what happens with men who are castrated (remember that more 95% of testosterone is produced in the testicles). Such things have been done in several countries in the past (like in Germany during the second world war). It turns out that most men lose their sex drive completely after castration (and also interestingly, for many of these men this drop in libido goes gradually, after a period of several months after castration, as if their brains are changing). About a third can still have intercourse but for most of them only after intense stimulation. And for approximately 10% of the castrated men their sex drives drops only a little bit. That is very interesting, and it leads me to a new hypothesis. Perhaps that testosterone indeed does have a large influence on people’s sex drive, but that perhaps for approximately 10% it doesn’t, they have a high sex drive regardless of their testosterone levels, high or low, they are immune to it. So perhaps this could explain why some women watch pornography every day. These women are simply the exception. But….. another explanation could be that those 10% of men who keep their sex drives are the proof that testosterone has no direct influence, and that those other 90% lost their sex drive because their bodies got into trouble which causes them to loose their sex drives.
I read about the assault in the MIami Herald. Somehow, ten women beating the crap out of her left only scuffed knees and one black eye. I think I could assemble ten woman-thinking about it, anybody could- that could do a lot more damage than one black eye and scuffed knees. Any how, this article is why I find the word “slut” useless. As a rule, any women is less of one than every man. Yet we never use the word to describe men. I think gays are a prime example of this because we hold no pretense over it. I signed up on a major gay dating site and the first thing I get as a benefit is free porn. See? No pretense. I dare anyone to show me a straight dating site that will do the same. BTW, any good transwomen dating sites that you know of? I’m proving my own point, aren’t I?
The reason that Traditional Societies set out to suppress female sexuality is not that it is so strong. That story is just cover. The real reason is that female lust is strongest (ovulation time) for precisely the wrong sort of man if the stability of society is the goal.
Very few female mammals pick their baby-making partners with any thought of the liklely-hood of him being the sort that would stick around and help raise the kid. The most dominant thug usually got most of the rewards.
The human female hind-brain did not fall out of the sky gifted wrapped from heaven as a de novo miracle of righteousness.
For some strange, strange reason modern traditionalists are more than willing to tell young men that they must control their instincts yet balk at saying anything like that to young women.
[…] saw this video at Maggie McNeill’s and thought it was funnier than […]
I guess debating hormone effects is certainly preferable to confronting the possibility that millions of girls are being permanently mentally castrated every day. Odd how that topic doesn’t provoke a single specific word in response.
You mean that women suppress their sex drive? It could be that women are naturally attracted to other women, just like men are biologically programmed to be attracted to women. Just like women have nipples men have them too. Just like men have penises, women have clitorises. They are all homologous. So, because men like hot naked women, women like hot naked women too!!!!! It’s the gender similarities hypothesis. Men and women have the same set of brains.
But in our patriarchal societies homosexuality is oppressed, because men want women all for themselves. That’s why women suppress their sexuality. I believe women are lesbians.
Women naturally have sex with men, because men decide to have sex with women.
We know that sexual intercourse exists in matriarchal societies. How is this possible if all women are lesbians?
Because we still don’t live in a matriarchal society. Women are much freer nowadays, but this is only true since a couple of decades. Many norms and values of the old days still exist in our minds.
I want to point to research by Meredith Chivers. She tries to find differences or similarities between men and women by attaching their genitals to measuring devices and letting them watch bonobo porn, naked men, naked women, men having sex with men, women having sex with women, and men having sex with women. While men reacted in a category specific way, women responded to everything except …. naked men!!!! Gay men typically only respond to naked men and gay porn. Heterosexual men respond to heterosexual and lesbian porn. Women also responded to bonobo porn, contrary to men. But what the women said they found arousing was very different from what the devices measured. For men there is a strong correlation, but not for women!
Daniel Bergner has written an interesting article in the New York Times about it (on January 22, 2009). He has also written a book with the same title (“What do women want?”).
The theory has been put forward by Meredith Chivers that women only show a physical sexual response (lubricating) to prevent injury. That’s why there is no correlation with what women say they feel in their head.
I have a different theory. It beats me that women sexually respond to everything except naked men. This is peculiar at first, but not if you assume that women’s brains are the same as men’s brains. If men are programmed to be attracted to beautiful naked women, then the same must be true for women. That’s why women sexually respond to women, but not to men. That women respond to everything is because their sexuality is unguided. They haven’t explored it yet. Would they have explored their sexuality they would have more control of what they sexually want.
I believe because men were in charge of women for hundreds of thousands of years, women couldn’t develop their own sexuality. Women had no say in selecting their sexual partner for centuries. Men decided it for them. That’s why from an evolutionary point of view it isn’t worthwhile to develop women who have their own specific sexuality. Basically, female sexuality is not necessary for humans. The sexuality what women have is the sexuality that men have. That’s what they have inherited. It’s the same reason why women have an orgasm. An orgasm is not necessary from an evolutionary point of view, but because men have an orgasm, women have an orgasm too. It is a gift from mother nature. Female sexuality is not necessary from an evolutionary point of view. But because men have a sexuality, women have it too. But it is the male version of sexuality that women have.
I think if our taboos would vanish you would see that women would lose interest in males and would mainly prefer other women.
The reason why women enjoy sex nowadays with men is because women see themselves as the target of their arousal. It is they themselves who turns them on. They become aroused of their own naked body. That’s perhaps why women don’t visit male prostitutes. Women already have a sample of a beautiful naked woman. It is their own naked body. That’s the reason why you see beautiful women having sex with the ugliest of men; fat, bald, hairy, ugly men. I think these women don’t really have sex with these men in their minds. The men are just the vehicles. The women in reality have sex with themselves. Perhaps they like the idea that somebody adores their own bodies. It is a form a narcism.
I think if our taboos would vanish you would see that women would lose interest in males and would mainly prefer other women.
This is the neofeminist belief; that heteronormativity would not survive the end of patriarchy.
However, the world’s largest matriarchy – the Mosuo of China – show that it is possible to have a matrilineal, female-centric society where heterosex is very common. They have no word for “father” (paternity is unimportant), and there is absolutely no taboo on how many or how few lovers anyone has. Yet lesbianism is very rare among the Mosuo.
I just read about the Mosou. I find it interesting. The women have more rights than in other cultures, but in my opinion this isn’t a fully matriarchal society. The women still support patriarchal ideas.
I think that truly non-patriarchal societies would quickly go extinct because they don’t produce enough children. Phillip Longman has also said something about this. He even predicts that very intolerant conservative people and religious fundamentalists will take over the world because they are the only people who produce the right amount children in order to sustain their populations. The more progressive and tolerant simply don’t have enough children and will ultimately become extinct.
I think this is the ultimate fate of matriarchal societies.
If women only have romantic relationships with other women, very few children will be born. And in a hundred years we won’t be hearing much about them.
Internet disclaimer: I am not a sociologist, psychologist or accredited researcher, obviousl
That being said, from a sexual standpoint, men are hurricanes and women are tornadoes. Don’t believe me? Try this test.
Find a random group of people. Friends, workmates (who aren’t sexual harassment tyros), guys at a pub, etc.
Ask them to play a ranking game with you. Get consent.
Pull out a set of cards, each card with a specific phenotype of human being.
{My personal set, based on area, works like this:
{Hottest blond
{Hottest brunette
{Hottest redhead
{Hottest Asian
{Hottest African
{Hottest Aboriginal/Native/”Latin”
{Hottest mixed/ambiguous}
Racial backgrounds can be delineated or condensed as necessary. In a group of Asia-born people (remember, Australia is on that side of the planet), you may want to remove the “Native” category and add a “Pacific Islander” slot. If you’re drinking with central Africans, you’ll have to differentiate between subcontinental Asians (Hindi), Arabs/Persians/etc., and Eastern Asians (never mind the fact that Africans will readily split themselves into cardinal points) . Around Central Americans or South Americans, you may need to literally split everyone down to base groups.
In five years of asking people to play this game, I’ve never met a group or people in which the men couldn’t find at least 5 examples of hot women or men from each specified background. Conversely, I can remember every woman (even when asked in all-female groups) who could run down hot guys from multiple backgrounds. The few women who could name examples from all backgrounds were almost stereotypically male in their (visible) sex drives (best example, IME, was a bonny Scottish lass who noticed that her female friends were stuck on “hot asians” and admitted that she’d pay good money to be the meat in a Ryuhei Matsuda/Edison Chen/Rain sandwich. She also grabbed our German server’s ass, told me that she’s love to try out my “black banana” and began “twerking” at the pub as soon as Beer No. 11 passed her lips.)
This thought experiment works as a Bizarro verification of the video in this post. Can women be as horny as men? Obviously, yes. Do women have the range of attractors that men possess? IMHO, hell no! Outside of Nordics and Asians, finding a group of women who can name a “Hot Redhead” after Prince Harry and (possibly) an attractive barrista or the local mail courier is difficult.
Prince Harry is so not sexy. The only redheaded guys who have ever done it for me are the actors Eric Stoltz and Kevin McKidd.
Yet another person who proves my point. I actually have a personal list of the 5 hottest redheads of all time.
5. Angie Everhart
4. Lucille Ball (yes, I Love Lucy Lucille Ball)
3. Maureen O’Hara
2. Lindsey Lohan (pre-drugs)
1. Alicia Witt
No internet search, no debate, no quibbling, my top 5. Place any one of those woman in front of me (in their 21 year old body, clean and sober) and I’d stutter like a teenager feeling his first testosterone surge. Hell, put me in the same room with Alicia Witt right now and I’d embarrass my entire race, culture and background in adoration. In comparison, you were able to name two separate men. I wouldn’t be surprised if you would spill your drink if circumstances matched up to my scenario, but the range is the killer. As annoying as the science is, it’s rare (IME) to meet women who deviate from the same race/dark hair and dark eyes/5-10 years older than herself criteria (coincidentally, those requirements are the main reason for my simultaneous acceptance of PUA logic and begrudged acceptance of HBD.)
Redheads and Asians are the only categories that I feel that way about. My lists of hottest blondes, brunettes, Africans, and Latins are well populated. 😉
[…] 2. Hussies […]
I think the internet is self-selecting in a way because I was going to call BS on women not being as voracious as men based on what I’d read others talk about. (Because while I may have come across quite a few women with large amounts of sex drive, it is not a scientifically large statistical sample).
Then I read where you said – “then why are there not similar levels of male prostitution”. I think you have a good point there. Where there is money to be made, there will be people doing something.
Although, wouldn’t this be a more complex thing? Power dynamics in terms of physical strength and so on? I’m not sure.I’d love a blog post to explore it.
This article made me lol! Born to Be Wild was always my theme song!
Men wouldn’t pay for sex either if women were constantly offering to give it to us.
Men are constantly offering to give sex to women, so I’s hardly surprising that they don’t pay for it.
I wouldn’t pay for gold if people gave it to me. There’s enough gold dissolved in sea water for every man woman and child on the planet to have a few pounds of the stuff.
Women will never compare to a male sex drive…I’m sorry but its just true.
A quick scalp thru wikipedia indicates that test is the primary regulatory sex hormone in males (theres an endocrine conversion pathway to Kurlacs DHT) and there’s always plenty of that about.
If a male refrains from ejaculation for a period of seven days, there’s an *atypical T peak* that lasts for 24-48h, then falls back to baseline for that individual.
IIRC the DHT level is modulated by ejaculation (actually orgasm) where it’s consumed in the process, so I suspect that this is the primary driver of the libido in males. The DHT level acts as a stimulus to seek sexual activity to reduce the urge via orgasm, without which the DHT remains present, as does the urge, and is increased by the presence of T.
In the female, there is a link bewteen eostrogen levels (rising as ovulation approaches) and sexual drive to *seek sexual activity*.
Note that close to her ovulatory peak, there is a release of T as well, stimulating ovulation, but this is converted to E via an endocrine pathway, further enhancing her libido to peak at the optimal fertility position in her receptive cycle. After this point, progesterone level begins to rise, which acts as a libido *antagonist* and the menstrual phase (if not pregnant) should then begin.
It’s a lot more complex (cyclically variable) than males. So the ladies are “sexually on” maybe 30% of the time if there is no partner in their lives, and the seeking urge is also *transient* as well, since there is a libido antagonist cyclically present, too.
Here’s the intriguing thing. There is evidence to suggest that both genders, via olfactory detection and subconcious response, quantify hormonal levels in the natural scent of the other.
Ovulating females give off a scent that is perceptible to males, which stimulates their sexual impulse further, biasing him towards ovulating females.
There is also evidence that an ovulating female is able to detect the T levels in males, and ALSO to detect the presence of certain genetic markers that denote immune system compatibilty between her and a prospective mate, which further stimulates her desire for sexual contact with *this specific male*.
They both “smell good”. There is further evidence that both genders will subconciously choose artificial scents that match their own native scents, which smell good to the individuals, too.
Neither of them have even *spoken* yet, but the odds are they’ve already selected each other with the Lizzard Brain and Scent.
Lets say they get along well (Thanks, Lizzard Brains) and decide to have sex.
Drawing a polite veil over the gymnastics, and assuming it doesn’t suck (horny guy, great smell, horny girl, also great smell and likely much more enthusiasm than is usual for her; “Make me Pregnant, Krulak”) there will be orgasms.
This is where we see another critical gender difference : the guy’s libido (DHT) is lowered by orgasm, but the girl’s *isnt*; orgasm in females doesn’t have a DHT pathway; her E level might even go *up*.
Oxytocin (the cuddles/chocolate/snuggles hormone) and dopamines are released by both partner’s endocrine systems on orgasm.
Further, if they are engaged in *unprotected* sex and the male ejaculates into the female non-orally, the vaginal/anal walls absorb (quite rapidly, 30mins) the seminal plasma, which adds *more* oxytocin into the female bloodstream, plus a cocktail of other secreted endocrines that act as natural *antidepressant drugs*.
That’s why Mrs Krulak is singing-happy-smiling for a good day or two. Krulak gives her a happy pill injection, in effect.
Finally, of course, oxytocin induces the forging, reforging or deepening of their socio-sexual mating bond. Hellooo / Make up / welcome back sexuality.
Now, this is all in the realm of biological and subconcious responses, of course.
Sexuality is, especially for women, a function of self-esteem, social and psychological factors and of course for both parties, since complex hormonal interlocks are a key part, physical health.
It’s suprising that the wheels don’t come off our sexual lives much more than they do already.
Are your assertions of the hormonal basis of women’s sexuality based on the study of normative samples (i.e. sexually dysfunctional women)? Do you think the assertions might be different if we studied women who have healthy clitoral erectile function?
Primary source of information is here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_motivation_and_hormones which contains a good number of citations in the relevant section.
I’ve noted an intersection with anecdotal evidence from women who were willing to discuss their experience around their ovulatory period. There seems to be correlation back to the science.
I’ve also referred back to Krulac’s anecdotal reports as examples of the effects the scientific article discusses.
I am of course making reliance on the citations : wikipedia is generally a sound source of reliable information on science matters, and is also quite diligent about flagging for “citation needed” as well.
Let’s be clear; even if a lady doesn’t get clitoral engorgement (or indeed has had that bodypart removed), the source of her hormonal secretions lies elsewhere; her sexual pleasure and her hormonal drive origins are separate issues.
And bear in mind, that our sexuality is a complex expression of our psychology, emotions, intellect and health; some of these alter our hormonal balances, some can be exerted conciously to mitigate our instinctive drives, even if that results in our unhappyness, or can indeed enhance our sexual impulses.
I make no assertions that human sexuality is simple, at all, but there is good evidence that our biological impulses play much more of a role than we prefer to admit.
For myself, if someone is happy with their sexuality, whatever that is, and it’s not obviously “malum in se”, that’s all I need to know as one of the “Others”.